Just modifing one (or many) members in a structure before using this structure...

There is a "Structure Range"... Tell me why there's no "Structure Merge" ? Kineme Stucture Maker could be used as a Merger ?

mfreakz, I haven't really had much occasion to get into this, but I believe that you can do this with javascript... Is anyone that is a little more adept with javascript that could mock something like this?

Maybe I'm off base... I don't think so though.

Shouldn't be too hard to do with JS. I will give it a go when I get a chance.

a|x

http://kineme.net/Discussion/ProgrammingQuartzComposerPatches/HowuseStru...

scroll down, and download array merge.plugin

Well, i'm totaly neophyte and incompetent in JavaScript... I could post my composition, but it seems unuseful because the case is really simple. I would like to extract a members of a structure (to change some values) and then re-inject it in the same place into the structure...

Let's take an exemple: I have a 80 member's structure (out of a Kineme GL Grid Generator). I would like to modify the number 25 (for exemple). So i need to extract N°25 (with a Structure index member), use Math to modify values, and then i need to replace N°25 in the main structure at the same place (25) and with having two N°25 of course ! First i try to extract list of members with a "Structure Range". The idea was to extract members 0to24 then extract N°25 (to be modified), then extract the rest of the structure N°26to79. The matter is that when i use a Kineme Structure maker to merge them, it don't give me a 80 members structure back, but a 3 members structure (the first range of initial members, the isolated one and the rest of the initial members) !!!! So it's a new structure with 3 structures but not the original one (The 80 members of a Kineme GL Grid Generator) ! The matter with Kineme GL Grid Generator is that i could'nt change a set of members values in the same time... Back to the root matter... If someone coud help me an build that JavaScript that could change many selected members on the go, that's could be really great for me. If the JavaScript is working with (in my case) 4 editable members that could solve my problem, and then i could try to look at this Script anf try to understand a bit how it works to manage with more inputs if i need... That would be very educational for sure ! But i'm very embarrassed to bother you with that...

Maybe you could help by an other way... How does the "Structure Sort" works ? Could it help to merge all the members of my first unuseful "3-structure" structure ? Maybe is there a better way to merge members of many structure in a single one ? With those tips, i could build myself a macro the could extract a defined members an re-structure all...

Actually, thinking about it more... I've crossed this bridge, and have a sample somewhere.... I think the "bunny blitz" qtz that I did (posted on vimeo)used this....

Thanx Franz, It seems to be "slow" as the creator says, but it could works for me. I would like to test the JavaScript Way, but there is no exemple. Do you have some ? Do you know how could i build something by myself with the "Structure Sort" for exemple (to extract the structure of structure into a long single one) ? My project is only to interact with a few numbers of a Kineme GL Grid Generator before rendering...

Maybe an exemple like this could help me to progress. Many thanx for your help !

What do you think about that ? I made the same structure than the original Kineme GL Grid Generator, but it don't works...

here it is.

This should get you goin'. You can also modify each component and make some maths...

Thank you so much ! I'll try this JavaScript right now...

Do you have a look to my "Structure Extractor.qtz" ? Doesn't it like curious ? Whatever, really thank you for your help !

It seems that this JavaScript Patch use to "Cross-merge" two structure and not "Add-merge" them... In your exemple, the merged structures have both 4 members with 1 value by members. The JavaScript merge them and it provide a resulting structure with also 4 members but with 2 values by members.

I need to extract a member of a structure, change it (with math for exemple) and replace it in the same structure, at the same place... The GL Grid Generator generate a structure of points linked to the GL Grid Renderer. I would like to interact with some of this points (only a few). As the GL Grid Generator doesn't have a structure input (of course it's a structure generator !) i can't change only the values for one selected point at a time... The only way is to make a structure for the GL Grid Renderer Myself. So i try (in my "structure extractor.qtz") to grab resulting structure of the Generator and re-build a new structure for the renderer. That way i could change some values... But it doesn't works :( Could you have a look to this composition ?

mmm, I'm looking, and my javascript thing isn't really applicable to this. Sorry about that.

why don't you demultiplex your sruct by iterating index values or interpolating them, then mod num 25 and multiplex it all back together ? seems a java script array would be the ideal solution but you connecting 160 + noodles shouldn't take a whole lot of time, maybe the publish all could expedite the situation.

Your structure extractor looks pretty reasonable, and I am kind of wondering why it doesn't work, for at least passing the values.

But.... now, the grid is one thing I have FEW hours of time on. Yet, it seems to me that only one point can be modified at a time inherently? hmm.

Well, i tryed to do that, it was my first idea... I've posted an exemple here. I just split all members of the original structure and merge them back (with their correct name and place) without modifying nothing, just for trying... I doesn't works! I think there is a bug somewhere not ? Do you have a look to my "structure extractor.qtz" ?

Of course it won't rebuild your structure. It will merge 2 structure. And that's what you asked. Now you want to EDIT a structure. No problem.

I sent you a JS structure merge. If you look inside more than 20 minutes (which obviously you didn't), you'll notice that you can EASILY process the incoming structure at ANY index, with some math.

First, remove the secondary structure input that you don't need.

Then, let's say you want to add 1.05 to all of your structure member.

Modify the code like this:

tmp[i] = StructureA[i] + 1.05;

Now if you want to access ONE specific index.... [i] is the index, so if [i]=your lucky number, then....

btw, i haven't had ANY bug so far with the new version of Grid Generator. Maybe you just mis-use it. Note that is is orginially intended to perspective-warp images, by providing a convenient way to hand access any of the vertices on the Grid. (= mouse point and click)

shoot, didn't look at this one last night, just looked at mfreakz posted response. This works like a charm, franz... for me at least.

That's the funny things there, i think you are French (like me) and i have to translate my ideas in English (that's the rule and i understand, but it's a bit difficult sometimes)... I'm not English fluent, so as i should speak a poor and bad English, it could cause errors of interpretation sometime. Also, i'm not so lazy but i'm really novice in JavaSript. Just think that i have never manipulate that kind of language, so i doesn't think that i could modify it myself. I just try different routing combinaison with the Patch... I 'm sorry to seems so demanding, that's not my intention, on the contrary i would like to thank you for your help ! Well, i will try to modify the JavaScript as you told me. It seems to be like a kind of "Amstrad Basic" syntax... (I hope !)

About the "bug": You should look to my "Structure Extractor" comp. I really think there is a kind of bug. In this exemple, i only try to "grab" and separate the members of the resulting structure and to re-build a new one before plugged to the Renderer... I use the same order, the same names, but the Grid Renderer won't works. This is a very simple exemple. I know that the original purpose of the GL Grid Generator and Renderer is to manipulate points one by one. I would like to warp an image with some controllers (HID). Imagine a character face (photographic) that contort his chin or eyebrows. The Grid system seems to be useful in this case, but maybe there is a better idea ?

You're right, GL Grid Generator could only midify one point at a time. That's why i try to change some points directly in the resulting structure. So i need to un-build the structure, modify some members and re-build the structure back. The GL Grid Generator is just used to build a coherent departure, a Structured Grid of points. But it seems impossible to manage with this resulting structure before rendering it. Those i call "the bug" is that i just split and join back the structure (without modifying it for begining) and it doesn't seems to match back for the GL Grid Renderer... Thanx to look at my Comp, you reassure me ! I think i could do something wrong in my test, but as you see there is a kind of "bug" there.

Franz send me a JavaScript that could merge structures together, but i'm a fully novice in JavaScript... I'm actualy trying to follow his recomandation to modify the Script, but i can't even understand the Java syntax... so you could imagine... Those i need is JavaScript Patch with a Structure input, a Strutcture ouput and some indexed inputs that could replace indexed members (maybe i could understand alone how to create news one in the script to create many replacement inputs). The big big matter is: if i could script alone (i need help again) this Javascript patch, will it works correctly in between the Grid Generator and the Grid renderer ? I think there is a kind of "bug" there... (Please Chris, come into this thread !)

Thank you for your help George.

Hi Dust, That was my first idea. If it could work fine, i was planing to make such a noodles work ! But as you could see in my test composition (Structure Extractor.qtz) it doesn't seems to work ! Could you have a look to this comp please ? George see the same strange "bug" like me. Maybe i'm doing something wrong, but it seems really strange. In this exemple i only split and join back the structure without modifying it and it doesn't work...

mfreakz wrote:
(Please Chris, come into this thread !)

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"

replace "fish" with "javascript", and you're good to go.

merging, blending, appending, and modifying structures in javascript really isn't that difficult at all. If everyone wants new/updated plugins to happen, I can't keep making compositions all the time too....

Well, i'm really really disappointed now... First Franz seems a bit irritated against me, now you... I'm really sorry. I never ask somebody to work for me ! I just try to understand. I don't ask for a fish, and i would like to learn how to fish instead for sure ! But as you could see: i'm just starting with JavaScript (it's like a foreign language for me). I'm sorry to bother you, i just hope that you could have a look to my buggy comp. It's not about the JavaScript, something seems curious with GL Grid Generator and renderer. Maybe i've made a mistake, but George is agree: something seems curious... If i ask for that, it's because i find a way to create a Structure merger, without using a JavaScript (i still have to learn more about it). There is a strange "bug" that seems to happen in my "Structure extractor.qtz" comp, do you think i do something wrong or does it appear strange for you too ? Sorry again to bother you :(

no, don't take me as irritated -- I'd love to jump in, really.

But right now I'm working on Export2App (which is really really exciting, ask George ;), AudioTools updates, some kineme3d stuff, some kinemecore stuff, and designing some advanced stuff for the future -- I really don't have much free time (ask my wife!) [and this is just kineme stuff! I have other work elsewhere as well]

I'll check out the grid stuff, but I can't promise anything (and grid stuff is private because we don't want to support it much anyway -- it's mostly a one-off for franz, for his architectural work).

your example is wrong: the input structure isn't the same as the output.

Grid Generator structures have a "width" and "height" key/value pair to tell the renderer how the vertex data is arranged. You're not making any attempt to preserve this, so the renderer gives up. (it does this because if it has 8 vertices, it doesn't know if you want to do 8x1, 1x8, 2x4, 4x2, etc).

The above pictures are if you change the grid to 1x1 (so the tooltip fits on the screen -- hence the unplugged stuff on the rebuilt one -- that's a side effect of the test. The important part is that there is no width/height key/value)

Preview	Attachment	Size
	Original.png	67.6 KB
	Rebuilt.png	69.85 KB

Ok ! I'm happy that you're no angry against me ! Sometimes, i feel i could take a piano on my head, just by walking in the street... I feel like that today ! (I speak a poor English so i'm afraid to be misunderstood).

I don't want to bother you (i asked for Export2App and many other features, all the more reason!) Sorry for that !

Thank you for your explanation ! As i couldn't see the whole list on my screen, i don't replicate the structure in a good form ! Thank you !!!

One more thing No, not a new iPod...

Now it work !!!! Thank you so much !!!! Does Width and Height always appear in this order and at the end of the list ?

they are from the generator, but it doesn't matter in the renderer -- the renderer uses names, not positions ("vertex_1" can be anywhere in the order, for example).

Thank you.

Here's a simple Structure Index Manipulator. It lets you select an index, and add an offset, leaving the rest of the structure untouched. You can add some more maths, or for instance , pipe it to a random patch. I'm afraid it won't work out of the box with the grid manipulator, as it doesn't accept sub-structures. Some refinement is needed, or you could ask here:

http://kineme.net/FeatureRequests/StructureTools or here: http://kineme.net/FeatureRequests/StructureProcessor

but i doubt that it's on the TO-DO list, as these requests date back from almost one year. Still, this would be an awesome addition to the KnM arsenal.

don't worry, i'm not irritated. Javascript is a pain.

Merci beaucoup Franz, Je m'essayais à une solution sans JavaScript mais la reconstruction de ma structure finale était incorrecte. Comme mon écran (le truc idiot) n'affichait pas la liste complète en sortie de structure j'avais pas vu qu'il manquait deux paramètres en plus des points: Width et Height. Chris m'as montrer mon erreur. J'ai donc put monter un patch qui semble fonctionner correctement. Je vais me pencher sur les solutions que tu me propose, à base de JavaScript. Le résultat sera sûrement moins brouillon que mon système. Je te remercie pour tout, et je te pris de ne pas m'en vouloir, je n'ai que peu de notion en programmation, je ne connais pas la syntaxe et les nomenclatures du JavaScript. Comme je viens aussi d'apprendre que ce couple de Patch (GL Grid Generator & Renderer) avait été conçu pour un de tes projets, je tenais à te remercier. Ils vont me permettre d'avancer sur un projet de warping sur photo temps réel. Encore une fois: merci pour tout et désolé de mal me faire comprendre en Anglais. A+

is allowing for the very hidden patches a feature of KinemeCore? like the CommunicationResolver Patch?

great fun, - pianas, fish, coffee.. great job!

Whatever you do, make sure not to misconnect the input ports on the hug patch, or you might raise an exception, or trigger a dump.

(sorry... must... stop... puns....)

It stands to reason that we re-connect together this time George, isn't it ? Maybe we used a Demulti-complexer Patch or something like that !

Thanx for your help.

The StructureIndexManipulator is a very good tool. When Chris point me that some of the original Structure's members wasn't reproduced in my modifyed Structure (width & height), i was able to create a big big Structure (like 86 structure index Member Patches linked to a big Structure maker Patch !). I was able to test my project... It works Now i try to optimize and simplify the Structure with your tools. If i could use JavaScript instead of such an heavy and tedious Structure Maker Macro Patch, it could be more useful. I could add some new points easily, add an option to increase or decrease the total number of points (some pictures need more or less point to work correctly), etc...

I try to change things in the JavaScript of the StructureIndexManipulator. Your patch is initialy used to work with a simple structure (one level) of numerical members. In my case, the main Structure include members that are substructured (every members of the main structure are "points" which means that they are a substructure of coordinates). I've already build the replacing substructure for a point in my heavy macro. Now i need that the StructureIndexManipulator accept a substructure instead of an offset numerical value to replace an indexed substructure by a new one. I try some naive/novice tricks like replacing __number Offset, by __structure Offset, ... not so easy ! Then i try to output directly the structure offset (no addition). It works ! But the resulting structure ouput loose all members name... And the Grid Renderer work with member names... Could you tell me if the main code is easy to change or if a substructured input need a more complicated Javascript ? Thanx.

It seems that i only need now to rename the members of my resulting structure... The output structure in named like that: "0", "1", "2"... I need: "vertex_0", "vertex_1", "vertex_2"... Could you tell me what could i do ? here is the JavaScript:

function (__structure Points) main (   __structure StructureA,
                        __number Index,
                        __structure Offset,
 
                        __index NumPoints)
{
   if(!_testMode) {
 
      var OUT = new Array(NumPoints);
 
      for(i = 0; i < NumPoints; i++)
      {
 
         OUT[i] = StructureA[i] ;
         OUT[Index] = Offset ;
      }
 
      var result = new Object();
      result.Points = OUT;
      return result;
   }
}

How could i output "named & numbered" members instead of only numbered members ? Maybe it seems easy for a JavaScript sailor, but i just learning how to fish ! Many Thanx.

naming/numbering was discussed here: http://kineme.net/Release/Beta/Parametricvariables

try using new Object() instead of new Array()

replacing __number by __structure won't work, as the "offset" is just a float you would add to the curent index value. Working with sub-structures is more difficult, however, you could "extract" the relevant sub-structure, modify it the way you want, and then replace it in the main structure.

Structure @ Index Replace: it does the job, however index names are not preserved...

btw, using new Object() instead of new Array() messes up the index order. ???

yeah, order isn't preserved in Object -- Arrays have strict index order, while Objects use a Hash order that isn't consistent. This matters for somethings (GLTools structure renderers hate this), but not for others (GLTools Grid Renderer doesn't use indexes at all, so it doesn't care -- suitable for his purposes here I think).

good to know

Many Thanx Franz ! If i understand, Chris says that Object doesn't preserve Order, but with the GL Grid Renderer using "vertex_[Number]", order doesn't matter. So in your StructureIndexReplace, i should replace "Array" by "Object" in the code ?

The following lines:

      var OUT = new Array(NumPoints);
      var result = new Array(NumPoints);

Should become:

      var OUT = new Object(NumPoints);
      var result = new Object(NumPoints);

Then the Structure input isn't considered as an "Array" (which preserve order) but as an "Object".

After that, i'll have to manage with Members names... Do i need to create a new input (on the top of the JavaScript code) to declare the "name" like: __string Member name, ???

Then i need to understand where to put this "name" to sort a correct named structure...

Thank you so much Franz & Chris to "follow" me and to provide good tips and Scripts !

This doesn't do the replace/index stuff, but it does properly copy the key names:

var result = new Object();
function (__structure Points) main (   __structure StructureMain,
                        __structure StructureReplace,
                        __number Index,
                        __index NumPoints)
{
   if(!_testMode)
   {
      var OUT = new Object();
 
      for(var item in StructureMain)
         OUT[item] = StructureMain[item];
 
      result.Points = OUT;
   }
   return result;
}

This turned into an informative thread and led to one of those moments for me, personally, where a few fuzzy things are now very clear. That makes me very happy!

After reading all of this... mfreakz, if I was going to approach what it sounds like you are trying to do, I would probably use a mouse/gravity warp/kineme3D plane setup. I would record the mouse movements with value historian, and then just use something to trigger them. It would be extremely easy to furrow a brow or something like that.

All the same, this is an interesting approach conceptually. It makes me more interested in the grid, which I have largely ignored.

many thxx chris. Now it works as a charm. (pretty ugly inside, but hey, it does the job).

njoy

!

This is just wrong :o)

you're right

It is!

But you know what....

This isn't the same, BUT... it's portable and not too different. Has nothing to do with the theme and proposed solution method. Totally CI.

I went for the raised eyebrow and subsequent facial meltdown effect... :o)

Your approach with CI filter is interesting. I think the GL Grid could produce a bit more accuracy for a realist FX. With a multiple numerical values inputs in the Grid, i could try to instil logical distorsion. If the character put is chin down (to open his mouth for exemple) i could pull down the "chin point" but i could pull down the cheeks too. As the skin is elastic and as muscles aren't bones different part of the face could move in the same direction but with different intensity. I could simulate opposite forces too. The matter was to modify multiple points at the same time, Franz's Javascript let me inject modified points into the main structure ! The main Grid could have a lot of points, that's not either a matter. In the exemple of pulling down the chin character, just one point could be use, but with different intesity and many points, this movement could seem more realist ! I will send something here in a few time... Hope you'll like it !

Many thanx Franz ! Thank you so much to help me and let's speak clearly: build to tool for me ! I really appreciate thi, it's really friendly ! Now i will spend my week-end building this character face. I will post something here on monday, then you could see on what you were working ! Your 3 Javascripts are great tools. The last one is precisely what i need but the others could help a lot in many case ! A great Structuremodifier pack ! Thany you.

Many thanx Chris for your help in this thread ! It seems very difficult for me, and i have to learn a lot about JavaScript, but during the transformation of the main Franz's Original Patch, i have understood something in JavaScript Syntax. Just a bit... But it's a begining !

Thank you.

No doubt... the grid approach is extremely interesting.

I didn't really go "all out" with the CI approach, and I also tweaked for big distortions. You can reign it in to be subtle.

I do believe that if you were to use vortex, pinch, and twirl, in addition to bump, that you could come extremely close or even more powerful, and have everything be CI. I believe that if I wanted to, I could tweak it in for the same distortions, or 98% similar :o)

Again, I do think that the image quality of the grid approach will always look a bit different/ and kind of better in fidelity. It is VERY cool. To me though, it's just a reminder of how many ways there are to approach something in QC, and how easy it is to forget about really "working" the CI filters to full capacity.

Your JavaScript modification is very interesting. In your comp (face.qtz) you have used the GL Grid + Franz's Javascript to distord a face. You have also modified the JavaScript, including multiple StructureReplace Inputs ! That's what i try to do now. If i look to your JavaScript, there is only 1 Index input for 2 StructureReplace inputs. How does the JavaScript knows which indexed members have to be replaced ?

In your JavaScript exemple, the Index input is 5, then there is 2 StructureReplace (indexed to 5 & 6). That's mean that your Index input indicate the first member of an array ?

Mmm, make sure to notice that the face.qtz is franz's!

As far as hooking up a "wrong" index from the front... it doesn't really matter too much since the structure maker re-assigns it to z. Try attaching an lfo or something to any of the inputs, and then hover over the output node... all is "good".

Franz made the structure out of vertex 6 the first structure replace, and the vertex 7, the second structure replace... I may be wrong, but I don't think it matters what index you choose with the end piece of javascript, as I don't see that input value called upon in the final math.

Oupsss... Ok, i notice that Face.qtz is Franz ! Apparently Index doesn't matter, and i can't link/patch many inputs... That's great !

yep, just forgot to remove that variable. the vertex index you want to modify is hard-coded. I'm afraid you'll have to modify the index directly within the editor, instead of setting it dynamically.

Unless someone knows the right syntax to insert a variable into this:

OUT.vertex_1

to become

OUT.vertex_[MyVariable]

but it doesn't seems to work so easily... Chris maybe ?