Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

gutsblow's picture

Hello,

Is it possible to access a k3d object vertices as a structure or something? There are default noise,bend and other transformation patches, but I need some more control over those vertices. Can you guys tell me if its possible?

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gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

No.

When you are modeling something, you can push around vertices, at whim. You aren't "really" manipulating an "obj" or "3ds" or whatever. You are more likely manipulating in memory info, that is then extrapolated to a 3d model file when you export.

So, when you import into QC/Kineme3D, if you want to push around vertices, you can do it via GLSL (which can be lame), or you can get more control with the Kineme3D deformers. The deforming falls upon the CPU to get accomplished... I believe this to be the case with most vertex deforming GLSL as well (if not all).

What you would run into, is that pushing around many vertices will really start making things chug. Also, what would the language be for having independent control of vertices, when all you have in QC? Javascript? That would be hairy.

I've had the same thought though :)

Maybe there is another way of achieving what you want? You can do things like take a model, setup multiple warp styles, and then trigger which version you want via a multiplexer. You can put multiple deformers of the same type in succession as well... I don't know if any of those ideas help, but there very well may be another method to achieve your end goal.

franz's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

you may have a surprise the 28th of august...

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

If it's Kineme3D as structure, I guess I will be surprised to say the least!

If it's OpenCL structure... not so surprising :)

pixelnoizz's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

its .dae files (collada) and not so easy. i made some early tests, and i was able to get the 3d object in one piece, but not in structure. Maybe its my missing knowledge of 3d models, but i converted my existing stuff with this sketchup, and qc sad undefined vertices. i hope its not related with openCL, because... Because the openCL things not working with all the video cards:( byebye old ATI cards.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

Yeah, in OpenCL you can have deformers, etc (this is part of the OpenCL spec, so I don't think I'm treading on nda stuff). It's not so "automatic" as you say. I was happy to write a cool looking deformer, but the examples and docs seem...lacking.

Man, this morning alone I had 3 kernel panics in about an hour - WITHOUT any plugins (one while doing...nothing, save for using Safari), and I finally just flipped over to Leopard to get a few things done (this is with the 9400/9600 nVidia combo, and a 3.06GHz, so it's not as if I'm choking it). If the release version does this, I'm going to be really put out. I was seriously "blown" when it popped up that it's coming out on Friday on their website. They are either seriously busting butt, or it's going to be known as Snow Leopard the Freezinator. I don't say that as a "hater", I say that as a serious lover of all that is Apple.

While older cards are not completely supported, I think that some will exhibit partial function or run on the CPU in some cases. For example, a build or two ago, I believe things were working on the Intel X3100, and some stuff wasn't(haven't checked lately)... it's not a supported card, but I was still loading models, deforming, etc, to my recollection. One or two things wouldn't run correctly, but they were Xcode projects.

dust's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

i have been trying with an .fbx .dae from maya. its interesting you can open them in picture preview and rotate them like the trackball inside preview that is... .dae. i think this is because there is system wide .dae support. honestly have not been able to get a strait collada export from their beta plugin. i have been able to use java script to add vertices where they should go. simple shapes, although i can get a open gl header file of vertex normals u & v information. im thinking i might try and use kineme file tools to actually convert and split {bundle_array[len8] } down to vertex_array[len3] x.y.z, normals_array[len3]x.y.z U & V color etc... that is required for open cl.

so open cl doesn't work on my gma 950. i was thinking though there must a vram problem maybe chipset problem i think open cl is ment to run on various chipsets im wondering if i run a virtual machine and boos my vram if i can get a gma =950 to work. supposedly there is minimal support for gpgpu on gma 950. i know a vram setting might be extra cpu but maybe simple things could work i don't know.

im hoping kineme 3d and gl tools will work in the near future. k3d seems to have issues with its certificate and gl tools really messes up. im really hoping for a virtual solution for mini macs and macbooks. i don't know enough of open cl yet to really comment any farther in those regards. i would think if open cl is acting as an aggregate bridge between the gpu and cpu then there should be someway to offset the aggregates load balance be > on the cpu so verts can be messed with in open cl on a gma 950. thats a though but honestly i really don't know what im talking about... im having a hard time getting open cl to work with a supported gpgpu

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

Dust, you've mentioned it before... what do you mean by "an .fbx .dae"? Also, are you talking about a Collada export plugin for Maya?

What issues do you have with the Kineme3D serial# prompt(?)... I've gone through a few updates over various builds (artnet, and quartz crystal as well), and it's always gone fine.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

re:monkeypresso- I'm thinking of a phrase that rhymes with "Get Besh Bomponent". :)

pixelnoizz's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

no poems please, its not a literary forum:)

gutsblow's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

LOL! I did try Snow Leopard (so called GM) after some one told me about the collada support and 3d mesh patches in QC. But its really buggy and QC crashed for everything and the kernel panicked many times.

gutsblow's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

George, Thank you for your suggestion. The reason I wanted a structure for the vertices is more control over the noise. Right now, the k3d noise patch affects all the vertices and the noise controls are very limited. I don't know much about GLSL and hopefully the mesh support in Snow Leopard is stable and works for my project.

dust's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

@ george there is a standard option to export a fbx dae combination file with maya that is not part of the collada plugin but formats collada. im just trying to figure out if the collada dae export is the same as the autodesk fbx api collada dae export ? anywho i will get that all sorted out eventually unless someone wants to chime in.

so you might find this useful its a openGL 2 openCL 2 JavaScript array writer i made in quartz. basically this parse out some u v noramal and verts if you want to manually create a opencl mesh file.

http://pixel8r.info/index.php/comps/mesh

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

You can always take a sub-object of a model and winnow it out using structure patches, coming off of the objects port on the 3D model loader. That can give you more control, but not per-vertex level.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

As far as interfacing javascript, that seems to be cake. Note the OpenCL kernels for creation as well.

I'm going to wait until it's all official-like before posting any files... in fact, I think I may bow out of this discussion for the sake of etiquette. They've disclosed a great deal about Snow on their own pages, but I don't think they've been that specific about QC.

dust's picture
Re: Kineme 3D Vertices as a Structure?

yeah im trying to keep this open cl related if you notice my composition is all leopard. i don't think there is an nda on open cl ill have to check my cuda developer account and see actually if im divulging to much info here but the related patch can really be used for lots of things. i have an openGL 2 GLES converter as well but thats more iphone related and C++ stuff...