Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max finally)

stuart's picture

Hello Max/MSP/Jitter users. I stumbled across the DIPS3 Max objects by accident one night when I was searching for something else. To my surprise, someone finally wrote some objects which bring Quartz to Max/MSP

Here's a link to download the DIPS3 libary http://dips.dacreation.com/

Here's a link to a 3rd party set of abstractions and documentation which focusses on the Quartz implementation. http://www.oddexperience.co.uk/software.html http://www.oddexperience.co.uk/pdf/RH_DQCPaper.pdf

The DIPS3 library is not an extension of Jitter. In fact it doesn't use Jitter at all. There are generators, renderers, processing and yes an object that renders a Quartz Composer composition. It also can control the composition via any published inputs.

It is a rather large library, but the object we are most interested in is named "DIPSQCRenderer".

I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet, but so far it's been performing well. I plan on using it to wrap up some compositions and add user interfaces to them.

Hope they are useful to someone

STuart

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cybero's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Well Spotted Software Watcher :-)

Definitely a vote getter.

yanomano's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Does it works with MAX/MSP 5 ? Somebody test it ?

hammers's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Hey, DIPS3 unfortunately does not work in Max 5 (it was released about three years ago before max5), the developers are preparing a new version for max 5, in the meantime they have made a beta that works perfectly (I'm a masters student of one of the developers and have used DIPS in a few things - its really a set of objects for live visuals using Open GL and they don't really publicise it too much). Some aspects are not as refined as jitter - such as the Dips window - (no fullscreen, border options - you just have to create a window that is the right size for your whole screen and move it with max messages)

However, it is pretty powerful and useful if you want to use QC, or have Open GL knowledge. The help files are pretty basic, and are just basic patches but are still helpful to learn how to use. The DIPS QC object is excellent, although in one of my test QC compositions the lfo I used didn't seem to work. If anyone would like the DIPS 4 beta that I have then message me and I can email it.

Chris c[dot]hambley[at]l a n cas t e r[dot]ac[dot]uk

intellijel's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Just tried the demo patches and they all worked in Max5 for me.

e_fe's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Hello there, first post on the forum! I am a jitter user and I know two of the guys developing DIPS(they study at the same faculty here in The Netherlands). The newest version of DIPS 3 works on max/msp 5. The idea behind the project is to make available inside max all the QC/QuickTime technology together with openGL(GLSL included). However, the downside of the library is that it doesn't work together with the jit.gl objects, thus, you cannot share the rendering context or work both in parallel. Takayuki Hamano(one of the developers I mentioned earlier) told me that he was able to connect them using java, but I am not which method he followed. He also mentioned that now the project is on stand-by. Hope all this information helps Emmanuel

dust's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

yeah this looks awesome, i must say i haven't used max much since i started with QC but every now and then i will help some people at college with max. so i like to think i know what i am doing with max but honestly haven't been able to get dips3 to work with max 5 i tried both manual and binary install but couldn't get them to work tried un installing a few times but no go any suggestions ? on how to get this to work with max. the max window says it can not find the dips objects which where installed in cycling74 folder. i tried putting them in both the max and jitter externals but no go ?

e_fe's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Hello dust: just replied your mail on the 'introduce yourself' forum. About your problem, I had exactly the same issue. I fixed it by downloading 'maintenance': http://osx.iusethis.com/search?q=maintenance or http://automatorworld.com/archives/maintenance/ and then running it on my computer. I was able to run the DIPS library afterwards. Be careful to delate all the previous folders of the library! Let me know if this works! Emmanuel

dust's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

thanks bud ? i think that is what i might have to do looks like the permissions are all messed up in the .mxo files. i will try to chmod them.

oddexperience's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Hahaa! Fame @ last :)

williamcotton's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

Alright, digging up an old thread here...

I very much like the idea of rendering quartz compositions inside of Max/MSP... DIPS is working just fine... I just can't figure out how to get it to go fullscreen.

Anyone?

Other than this, is there a good way to integrate QC and Max/MSP (and even Jitter?).

Right now I'm using Max/MSP -> OSC -> QC... works fine, but it sort of feels sloppy...

... on a somewhat related note, and dust's DLSSynth got me thinking about this for the thousandth time, I'd really like to see an audio visual environment that blends QC and Mainstage/Logic... I've started mocking up some ideas in Photoshop which I'll post in a new thread at some point... of course if there were standardized ways to pass around audio, video, and parameter data, this wouldn't be needed... each app could just do it's own thing...

As it stands now, analyzing audio, converting the values to MIDI, and then sending it to an applications like Logic or Mainstage is a recipe for disaster.

I guess the marketplace for the things running around inside our heads isn't that large. :)

toneburst's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

You could try VDMX. It's a modular realtime video application that can use QC compositions as source videos, and integrates nicely with any music application that can send out MIDI or OSC. It's often used in combination with Ableton Live for realtime AV performances, and works really well with this setup.

http://www.vidvox.net

alx http://machinesdontcare.wordpress.com

dust's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

are you using max 4.6 ? or 5 with dips3. i just did a fresh install of max 5 again for the 4th time and tried to install the dips3 for max 5 binary again but the .mxo objects do not show up in max. i have emailed the people in this thread offering dips4 beta but never got a reply. william can you explain how you got dips to work ? i assume going full screen would be the same as normal in max but then again i can not get dips to work so i'm not sure.

although i just compiled a java component that renders a quartz file so this means its theoretically possible to one use a java component on the internet letting PC users be able to view QC files either natively or on the web and two seeing cycling 74's max api is java based it might be very easy to make an external that loads a java qc component. i will investigate that when i have some time and it is really necessary for me to use max. right

i have made some considerable headway into getting some sort of AU tools working in qc last night. i'm thinking that AU components use a 4 char code to identify the type the sub type the manufacturer etc... these are part of the components description and are necessary to create a node. so i'm thinking that passing the component descriptions as a string it would be possible to use multiple patches in qc to build a AU graph network. actually one node could be used as a multiple of unit types just passing the descriptions to each other. i would have to have some kind of graph render that could also be hooked to a component mixer so you can do some of the things logic does in qc, if not most of the things main stage does.

i use logic to record tracks in a traditional since, and make main stage concert patches for performance stuff. i like main stage because it is fairly simple to route midi etc.. actually its really brilliant you can use multiple midi devices at the same time, making it possible for multiple people to use one machine in a performance letting you use another machine for the visuals etc.. plus i like being able to write notes to my self that i can see like a teleprompter or something. i forget the scales i make songs in sometimes so when doing a live performance its great to have that reference, even if the editor is kind of cramped. its also great to have your whole band running through main stage. this way you have control over the mix at all times and don't have to rely on a sound guy mixing your bands output even if he is going to do so regardless. it just makes it easier to get the same sound no matter where you are.

actually AU lab does almost all the same things main stage does. not sure about the automation but lets say you want to output your patches channel strip to different audio devices you can do this. main stage will only let you choose one audio device, to get around this you can make an aggregate device in the system midi utility but AU lab is much easier because you can bus audio by channel strip right to a device. its not often i use more than one audio device but sometimes its good for cue or pfl etc...

osculator creates a pretty good bridge from qc to main stage for me. its good to use host environments sometimes because they focus on their tasks individually but getting them all to talk together is really a pain or time consuming because you got have to map all the controls out of qc via osc catch them in osculator or max msp then convert and route to midi then graph them all out again in main stage, and thats just the number stuff. getting max msp to rewire and send dsp audio and midi data between applications is pain as well. its not hard but you do have to read the f@#$ manual, then your max patch crashes your host because you opened the programs in the wrong order or changed the timeline in logic when max is the master etc..

the final cut studio has a pretty cool way of updating changes etc.. like if you edit your logic file it updates you final cut file that updates you motion document that updates your soundtrack document or vise versa.

blah blah william if you could tell me how you got dips working that would be great.

e_fe's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

It is indeed, a pity that you cannot embed qtz compositions inside Max. From my personal opinion the data management is much better in max than in quartz composer. However, I think that it is pretty much impossible at this moment to merge both applications as qtz is becoming more and more hardware dependent(ask openCL!) and max is moving towards a more trans-plataform attitude. I listened from someone that one of the reasons to rewrite huge chunks of the source code was to fit better both max and windows platforms and fill the gaps. I personally find that the best way to go is to use OSC, which is annoying sometimes, I know!. Schedule and clocks are not the highlight of max. However, a good point is that you can use some other applications to generate the data base to render material, like supercollider or chuck; with them you can generate huge stockpiles of lists and patterns that can be translated as parameters for both image and sound. SuperCollider has a 'lazy evaluation'(scheduled render of values) that works like charm with quartz. In the case of a more friendly approach(no code!) thumbs up for VDMX, nice nice application!.

Emmanuel

williamcotton's picture
Re: Max/MSP users, check out the DIPS3 objects (QC in Max ...

I just downloaded the install from: http://dips.dacreation.com/3.2.02/DIPS3forMax5.dmg

It worked fine!

I'll follow up on this post soon... I've been running around all day and headed out now.