Geodesic Dome

alexbeim's picture

I need to model a geodesic dome in Quartz Any ideas of where to start?

It would be something like this

http://www.arumdawn.com/photography/architecture/images/00Science%20Worl...

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cwright's picture
start at the beginning

Do you need to model it as in "have a 3D model" in QC? That's both easy, and difficult.

It's difficult, if not impossible, with stock patches; there aren't a lot of 3D capabilities built into QC.

It's easy, in that I can give you an alpha of Kineme3D, which will handle this pretty simply (assuming that that's what you need). Then all you need to do is model it in some program like Wings3D or whatever, and load the model in QC with Kineme3D.

If that's not what you need, then please elaborate on what you need, and we'll see what we can do to get you going.

alexbeim's picture
I'm working on a proposal to

I'm working on a proposal to add rgb lighting to a dome. I wanted to create a simple wireframe of the dome and position small spheres on the connections. Then I would like to change the rgb values on those spheres and hopefully be able to generate interesting color animations.

It could all be done in 3D but I want to be able to interact with the prototype live

dwskau's picture
Replicate in Space

This would be really difficult, but it would be awesome if you could accomplish the whole dome using a single replicate in space patch. The faces could be a sprite with an image with alpha that makes it a triangle.

alexbeim's picture
I don't even need the faces,

I don't even need the faces, I would be happy just with a wireframe. I was also thinking about replicate in space but I'm not sure it could be done that way

dwskau's picture
Replicate in Space

I started thinking about this more and the patch has the end orientation and translation unfortunately. You need a patch that has an initial transformation and then the number of times to repeat that transformation. Possibly a useful patch to be written if it does not already exist?

cwright's picture
interactive model

In that case, I really think it would be pretty simple to use the Polygon Mode patch (GLTools), and use Kineme3D to render a geodesic dome model -- instant wireframe without fiddling with a zillion patches.

The only tricky part would be placing the colored spheres... For that you'd still probably need some replicate in space patches or some iterators.

importing the model in QC will allow you to interact with the model live.

alexbeim's picture
Geodesic Sphere

I found a bunch of geodesic models in Google sketchup. Can I try it with Kineme3D? Also what kind of format can I import?

Alex www.tangibleinteraction.com

cwright's picture
sketchup

Wow... I have never seen google sketchup before, but that's pretty slick -- looks like another file format to add support for when I get a chance.

I really like its interface; it's simple, but for someone unartistic like me it's perfect. Thanks for the reference.

(for the time being, you'll want to export to Collada from sketchup to read them in kineme3d - it supports .dae files, though that format's a bit untested since no one seems to have them...)

dwskau's picture
SketchUp

Google 3D Warehouse also has a huge library of free sketchup models, so that would make it incredibly easy to insert just about anything 3D you wanted into QC.

cwright's picture
++

That ... was the second part of my previous post, which I forgot to type: nearly endless numbers of models for everything! :) Thanks for reminding me :)

kimba23's picture
Where is kineme3d?

I looked on the betas... could not find it. Thanks

cwright's picture
not beta yet

Kineme3D is in Alpha right now (pre-beta), so it's not publicly available, even with an account; It's distributed via e-mail by me to those in the Alpha program. If you're interested it alpha testing, please contact me personally via e-mail, and we'll discuss that further. (you can contact me via e-mail with the address at the bottom of every page on kineme.net)

[ also to keep Apple Employees from snooping too much ;) ]

DanieleCiabba's picture
how to export to Collada

how to export to Collada with sketchup?

cwright's picture
pro only (oops)

Looks like that's a SketchUp Pro only option (under File -> Export...)... I didn't realize that before. Looks like I should make .skp files a bit higher priority....

DanieleCiabba's picture
collada! non pro sketchup

Rename the file from fileName.kmz to fileName.zip and unzip the contents

from: http://update.multiverse.net/wiki/index.php/Exporting_Models

collada yea!

its work for non pro sketchup

mattgolsen's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

I haven't had any luck reading .dae files out of .kmz's saved from the regular version of SketchUp. Has anyone else tested this recently?

I don't think it's loading those files at all. I tried a .dae (a duck!) from Collada's site and it loads with no issue. So it makes me think they're not generating a standard .dae from SketchUp. I'm going to try a simple polygon and see if that works...

cwright's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

I think the colladas from Sketchup confuse the collada loader in FBX 2009 (the newer sdk used after Alpha9).

I've not been able to determine if it's an FBX issue, or a sketchup issue. :(

mattgolsen's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

Interestingly enough a single cube I created and exported loads just fine. It's almost like there's some sort of internal structure to more complex files.

caseyfarina's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

Any movement on this issue? I have also downloaded a bunch of google models in Collada format and the don't load in QC with the Kineme objects. I'm excited about scripting a forest with sketchup models + iterator + kineme3D (which is just capital by the way).

cwright's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

Not Yet -- we spoke to the autodesk dweebs at NAB last week, and they didn't have any development staff on hand to help. They said they'd get someone in touch with us though... no idea when.

There's supposed to be a new SDK out soon that fixes some other issues with object loading, perhaps DAE support will improve as well.

[EDIT: it's actually available now -- downloading, will integrate into the next kineme3d 1.2 beta build... let's see what happens]

gtoledo3's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

YES. YES. YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And.... I will add.... "SWEET!"

jersmi's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

btw, photoshop 3d is now/will be leaning towards collada, and cinema 4d .dae files seem to work quite well with kineme 3d. i heard that the (now) clunky photoshop 3d stuff is a foundation for 3d digi cameras coming down the pike.

cwright's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

dropped in the new headers and library, hit "recompile everything", sat back, watched a few new warnings (but no errors, that's a good sign).

loaded up sample compositions -- all seem to work.

loaded up nightmare obj samples -- still take a while, but it's almost biologically useful now (as in, you can start a composition, and it can finish loading before you die from old age)

loaded up a sample DAE that failed in the previous sdk. got this:

Damn you, autodesk... we just can't win... [bug report filed: http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/27575/ ]

(still need to test 3ds quirks, and reproduce other reported bugs to see if they're fixed... at least obj loading in 1.2 won't suck quite as badly...)

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caseyfarina's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

So I have sketchup pro and have attempted to download some models from 3d warehouse (as sketchup files), export, then load into kineme 3d.

However, the models either do not show up or are unrecognizable, for example a car looks like a single plane.

The options for exporting from sketchup pro are

3ds collada dwg dxf fbx odj vrml xsi

I'm completely inexperienced in the 3d modeling world, which of these formats will provide the best performance and translation in Kineme 3d?

cwright's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

a little dash of google magic, and we find this:

cwright on kineme.net wrote:
OBJ's ok usually, but in Kineme3D the loader is very very slow, and it doesn't always do the right thing. FBX is a much better-supported format.

I'd suggest going with FBX too ;)

cybero's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

I tend to find that fbx files work very well.

The Autodesk FBXConverter UI takes obj, dxf, fbx, 3ds & Collada too and will output either a binary or ASCII FBX in any one of six age variant fbx formats - so no dwg or xsi.

Kineme 3D patch loader takes fbx, dae, md2 [nice for animations] dxf, 3ds and slowest of all for large complex models - obj

mattgolsen's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

The tried and true method that I've used with Sketchup is to select everything in your model and use the "Explode" option on it until you can't anymore. Save the .skp, rename it to .zip and you'll find the .obj file inside of the archive. It should load with Kineme3d from that point.

I haven't tried this with extremely complex models, but one of my co-workers created a 3d model of our 165,000 square foot facility (office and everything), and I was able to load the .obj with nothing missing...

dust's picture
Re: collada! non pro sketchup

can anyone confirm that a fbx dae will work with qc. also does anyone know what program will export a collada that will work with qc ? i go the collada for maya plugin but don't really know how to make it show up in qc. oh this is "sl" never mind disregard that last question just what is a good collada exporter is my question.

memo's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

Why do you even need a 3D model? If all you want to do is place lights at the joints, just have a javascript patch that generates a structure of points. And then you can do whatever you want with the results, stick'em in an iterator etc. This way you can even have the dome be parametric and you can enter the radius, length of segments, resolution etc. If your dome structure is fixed then you can calculate all the coordinates in a separate little app.

EDIT: wow this is an old post! for some reason it just appeared in my rss feed :S

dust's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

if you have a cl enabled system making a parametric dome in a kernel would give you a structure of data points that you could then visualize as mesh, as points, as wire etc...

here is a kernel from t-linked. a sphere is easy to understand but the super geo shapes are hard for me to visualize parametrically. i like to drop a model onto the editor and get the vertex points from a component which i think is really cool. unfortunately i wish i could visualize data parametrically in my head as i think that is even cooler.

#define PI 3.14159265
 
__kernel void grid(__global float4 *Vertices)
{
 
   int   tid_x   = get_global_id(0),
      tid_y   = get_global_id(1),
      sz_x      = get_global_size(0),
      sz_y      = get_global_size(1);
 
   int index      = mad24(tid_y, sz_x, tid_x);
 
   float u = tid_x/(float)(sz_x-1);
   float v = tid_y/(float)(sz_y-1);
 
   float pv = (v*PI);
   float tpu = (2*u*PI);
   float x = sin(tpu)*sin(pv);
   float y = cos(tpu)*sin(pv);
   float z = cos(pv) ; 
 
     vstore4(make_float4(x, y, z, 1.), (size_t)index, (__global float*)Vertices);
 }

dust's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

has anyone seen a geodesic dome like this before ? (pic)

they make them for adults. its a pain in the ass to blow up. i only wish i had a toy like this when i grew up.

my daughter brought this over to the park and all the kids rushed her as she can get inside this blow up ball and roll around. funny how popularity works, as she was instantly popular because she has a cool toy no one has seen before.

the picture on the box has one of these in a pool. i don't feel comfortable throwing my 3 year old wrapped inside and inflatable geodesic sphere into the pool but i sure as hell want to try the adult size.

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gtoledo3's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

Inside of the aurora.qtz from the opencl examples, I believe there is a turned off macro that contains javascript fot a geodesic dome. I may be wrong.

bernardo's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

it would be kick ass fun!!! i'd say... i could make a model of it in 3d though and post it dae format tomorrow?

dust's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

actually i think my kids ball is a polyhedra geodesic dome to be exact.

zanroversi's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

hello,

it's perhaps too late but here is a geodesic qtz dome !

made with sprites and a lot static angle values but coordinates of sprite are calculated)... so not very useful.

regards

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géodesic test.qtz1.79 MB

usefuldesign.au's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

Love your work, zanroversi!

Made a minor mode change so holding shift key down enables your auto-rotate functions otherwise mousedown interacts with a trackball.

Do you have any notes or links on the theory behind this domes construction? Equations even? I'm always interested in learning more about geodesic domes.

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géodesic test i.qtz1.74 MB

jersmi's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

Very cool, zanroversi. I love your work, too!

zanroversi's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

hello,

Thanks a lot for your comment ! Buckminsterfullerenes are a great subject !

I built a geodesic dome in aluminium several years ago and I haven't found any useful/specific documentation (except the attached one).

So for me it was empirical. I tried to make it with equation but it was far too hard for me... I'm sorry but I can't really help.

A good start according to me was to implement spherical coordinates system (see attached comp.)

Good luck !!

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How to Build a Geodesic D.doc.zip17.65 KB

zanroversi's picture
Re: Geodesic Dome

hello,

There is a deeply simplified version according to informations found by following this link (which is the best I've found) :

http://www.mathcurve.com/polyedres/icosaedre_tronque/icosaedre_tronque.s...

I put some notes inside the qtz.

greetings, I hope it will be useful !!

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