Settings Patches floating directly in the Editor Window !

What about creating a couple of "visual tools" directly linkable to other Patches in the Editor Window ? I think about a simple (with size settings) Slider, a numerical field and a wheel that could be plugged to patches inputs in the Editor window and that could be manipulated to refine settings or use the Editor Window in live situation for managing the main screen... I know the Patch parameters window do that, but in numbers of Noddle programming Software (Eyesweb, Max...) users can add those precious Sliders directly in the Editor. I think this could be a great new feature to start working with those kind of interface. Think about our .qtz demo comps (with the stickies notes) in our forums, or the future option in the future Export2App that could take those "edited" inputs with your preferences (a slider or a wheel, and index or a number...)

Do you think this could be useful ?

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dwskau's picture
Re: Settings Patches floating directly in the Editor Window ...

Isadora by Troika Ranch is almost exactly what you are talking about. It is a node based interface almost exactly like quartz composer but all the inputs are directly visible/editable in the patch without an "Inspector Window". I don't know why Apple didn't do QC this way, it makes so much more sense...

smokris's picture
Re: Controlling Patches In-place

Another example, now over ten years old, is the Nord Modular editor. I've attached a screenshot from Harmony Central. (And from the beginning, the Nord Modular Editor's knobs have been way easier to manipulate than QC's radial knobs.)

In certain cases, I'd find it really handy to be able to alter static parameters in-place, in the Editor, without having to bring up the Inspector. Double-clicking on the port name brings up an edit box / select list for many port types, but when you're not in edit mode, there's no indication of what the value is, which is annoying.

Adding on a read-only in-place display of port values might be a good first step (combined with the existing double-click editing).

Anyone care to photoshop some patch screenshots to start figuring out how the UI for this would work?

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cwright's picture
Re: Controlling Patches In-place

I was actually thinking of making a global port value list as part of the next performance inspector. Editing from there isn't appreciably more difficult.

Modifying the patch actors is a fair amount more work (and getting everything to line up afterwards is going to be a nightmare). Ports are currently backed by an already heavily customized NSTableView (iirc)... (though perhaps that hints at being able to drop in an NSOutlineView for collapsible groups... ;)

Otherwise, I think changing the port name to have a T/F, or number after it would be exceptionally simple, and wouldn't involve nearly as much hackery. Read-only for sure, but with SnowLeopard near, most of our UI hacks will be canned in the next 6-9 months anyway...

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Controlling Patches In-place

What, you mean snow isn't going to be released at the end of the month!!!??? Darn.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Controlling Patches In-place

To be clear, my comment was just a joke, and only referred to all of the rumors of early Snow release. No real details! Just me being a dork!

yanomano's picture
Re: Controlling Patches In-place

Coming from an isadora background also, it was hard at the start with Pixelshox then with QC to not see values on patches and to be forced to open an editor to modify them... but it force you to develop mini-tools : to report values in HUD directly in the viewer, to remote values with mouse drag etc...and it is a good think...And Finally not having numbers everywhere in the editor (on each patch) keep all more readable.

However i think global port value list as a part of the performance edtitor would be an amazing step...

dust's picture
Re: UI Hacks Canned in snow ?

" with SnowLeopard near, most of our UI hacks will be canned in the next 6-9 months "

that does not sound like good news. i have tried the developer release of snow leopard and in the beta version there does not seem to be much superficial change to QC. i know the beta is old, apparently apples software and hardware cycles are way off. i tried snow beta on a new MBP and it didn't like it. 10.5.6 is newer than 10.6 if that makes any since.

you got any inside good new ? related to QC and knM ?

cwright's picture
Re: UI Hacks Canned in snow ?

Please don't discuss 10.6 on public forums, as it violates Apple's NDA. (if you only used the WWDC seed, a lot has changed since then in snow leopard in general -- not discussing details).

As for "canned" -- KinemeCore's UI modifications are tied intimately to QC.app's internals. If they make slight changes, KinemeCore won't be able to change things without us rewriting it to work in QC-SL's environment. We don't know what the final feature set will be, but going as far as modifying how patches/noodles are rendered in the editor is extremely risky, and almost certain to break.

dust's picture
NDA-fight club

sorry chris not trying to violate apples NDA. its like the fight club what happens at apple stays at apple. it seems they finally lifted the iPhone "no talk" but no worries bro, im used to non disclosure confidentiality agreements and what not, wasn't looking for any snow info more or less how it will effect kineme related things etc... im only a ADC student select member and not premiere member so i'm not really up to date with current build, got a copy a while back with the server build from school to test podcasting but like you said im not really at liberty to discuss the features etc... was just wondering if you suggest a clean install and not an upgrade if you are expecting there to be problems with the kineme side of things ? maybe next tuesday we will all find out ?

gtoledo3's picture
Re: NDA-fight club/stab me in the eye with a spoon...

Ugh, you got a free seed Dust? Somebody stab me in the eye with a spoon. (I think I should sign up for a class at a local college, and it would be cheaper than premium ADC, correcto? lol....ugh ugh ugh).

dust's picture
Re: NDA-fight club/stab me in the eye with a spoon...

hahaha

george your brutal, remind me not to get in knife fight with you cause your gonna break out the spoon, man how much more would a spoon hurt than a knife ? im thinking a lot more... one of those slow blunt object kills, at least the disposable kind you can break, haha im actually working on the edible version. edible silverware where did that one come from ? honestly depending on the class and school you would more than likely be getting a better deal to pay the 4 grand for a premiere ADC account. im pissed off i payed for a i Phone developing certificate, just to find out i get one for free by taking the i-phone class.

but yes george i have been known to wear a patch over my eye, apparently you do too, seeing you got a spoon in it now. lol.... i messed with the legitimate version at school, we had problems with podcasting on the leopard version.. and i have messed with the seed as well at home.... my advice to you is don't mess with the seed. i do however respect nondisclosure agreements, in my corporate days it was common place when style forecasting licensing products, to sign such things, in addition some schools have them built in, meaning if you come up with an idea while at college they get to keep the rights. fortunately my school only excersises that right when research funding is involved, but like i said i wouldn't want to get chris into any trouble, was just wondering how snow was to affect kineme users.

this was the standard reply at my school when asked how can you teach IPhone application development.

“Basically, it's like Fight Club. Once you enroll in the iPhone developer program, you're not allowed to talk about the developer program, the SDK, or pretty much anything until Apple says it's OK.”

so seeing they have lifted the NDA on the Iphone its ok to publicly talk about it, but its really my bad the NDA has not been lifted for leopard or anything else proprietary was just concerned with chris's statement in regards to UI hacks.