QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

incubo's picture

Hey,

How does applications built with QuartzBuilder in 10.7. work in 10.8. Or does QuartzBuilder actually work within 10.8.?

In other words, do I dare to take a job that requires a fairly simple QuartzBuilder built application to work in 10.8., when I'm still running 10.7.? Unfortunately I don't have a Mac with 10.8. at hand at the moment and I wouldn't want to buy one just for testing before taking this small job.

So what are my chances, any experiences?

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smokris's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

There aren't any known issues with QuartzBuilder specific to 10.8.

However, since the behavior of Quartz Composer itself has changed between 10.7 and 10.8, I would advise that you find a way to test your composition on 10.8 before accepting the job.

incubo's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

Thanks for the quick reply smokris. Good to know and will do the testing somewhere.

cwilms's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

I found some severe changes between the way a complex composition worked between 10.7 and 10.8. Most of my issues with 10.8 were regarding video input/capture cards and some stability issues. I ended up reinstalling a fresh copy of 10.7 on an external drive (eventually being moved to an internal partition) to even be able to run the composition properly. I don't recommend QC under 10.8 at all. I'm not even sure the issues are directly related to QC itself but more to the way 10.8 handles video input devices now as QuickTime X and a few other apps experience similar limitations.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

I've had a really complex app (non-QuartzBuilder) that can load all kinds of quartz compositions running fine in 10.8, and have also used QuartzBuilder occasionally in 10.8.

I think things are OK, with a few caveats. My luck with 10.8 has been greater than 10.7, but that's anecdotal. I don't buy into the "don't use this OS/this OS version was the best" even though I've probably said that in the past. The truth is that every single version has had some bug, but that's also the case for almost every other framework (eg., non QuartzComposer OS X frameworks). It's just how it is.

1 - The stock video patch works OK, but in 10.8, when used with GLSL, you'll most likely need to place a stock Core Image patch in between. This is because the texture data coming off of the video patch is no longer "texture2D" off the bat (I guess). The blank Core Image patch puts the texture2D attribute on it.

2 - OpenCL kernel system isn't great for production apps in 10.8. That said, I think this has always been the case because of the un-eveness of GPU driver support on OS X. Anytime OpenCL is used, even outside of QuartzComposer, it's a real stab in the dark whether what you're doing is going to run correctly on a different GPU.

3- Make sure all of your plugins and patches are 10.8 compatible. This seems to be the source of most issues that I or others encounter.

At this point, I make sure that everything is running on 10.8, and I develop on 10.8 as well, though I mostly skipped over 10.7. I 100% can't afford failure in the scenarios I'm using 10.8 and QC on, and I feel fine with it. There's some element of testing stuff and occasionally working around bugs, but not any more than I've felt there to be on any other OS shift.

cwilms's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

For me it's that the video capture device isn't even available in 64bit mode under 10.8 (in 32-bit mode it is available). Under 10.7 it's available in both 32bit and 63bit modes. OSX now handles video capture hardware differently in it's latest release, affecting Quartz Composer, Quicktime, Adobe software and even Final Cut Pro. I don't know exactly what has changed but there are multiple examples of it in software running AJA, Matrox and Blackmagic hardware, so something at OSX's core has changed in Mountain Lion and there isn't a real fix available yet.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QuartzBuilder and 10.8.

cwilms wrote:
For me it's that the video capture device isn't even available in 64bit mode under 10.8 (in 32-bit mode it is available). Under 10.7 it's available in both 32bit and 63bit modes. OSX now handles video capture hardware differently in it's latest release, affecting Quartz Composer, Quicktime, Adobe software and even Final Cut Pro. I don't know exactly what has changed but there are multiple examples of it in software running AJA, Matrox and Blackmagic hardware, so something at OSX's core has changed in Mountain Lion and there isn't a real fix available yet.

I don't doubt what you're seeing. Are you using the most recent version of QuartzComposer? I know that when I tried to use my previous version, it appeared to be OK at first glance, but had various bugs. When I went and downloaded the newest version, most of that kind of stuff cleared up and I was left with a handful, basically what I described.

I ask because I just checked, and I'm sure I'm running QC in 64 bit mode when developing compositions in ML. The app I described previously is a 32 bit app though.

I know stuff can work because I have to deploy on all different kinds of systems, with different CPUs/GPUs.

I feel like if you don't actually see the patch in your Patch Library, that there's something problematic with your install. Let's say that patch doesn't work on your system with your camera for some reason (driver?)... the way that QC's patch loading happens, you should still see it in your list. I'd strongly advise you to check that you're using the most recent version of QC, and that an old version isn't opening up. Over the years, I did have one OS X install that was messed up from the start, so that's always a remote possibility as well.

I have seen one more issue with the video patch that I forgot about until this second - there should only be one per composition.