Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post 10.6.6?]

offsite's picture

Hello, although dubbed offline, this is actually cybero writing.

As the title of the post here suggests, I'm finding that I'm having a problem with Quartz Builder applications.

What had previously worked AOK, no longer works.

Please find two links below to two Quartz Builder toys hosted on my site, they work for me, they used to work elsewhere, but unless I've just hit upon an odd exception on the Mac I tried the items out on, they no longer work properly.

Visualizers, Screen Savers and other types of compositions still work in situe as expected.

Just Quartz Builder applications.

These include the ones that I'd published a long time ago, all the way through to today.

RandomViz shouldn't require any 10.6.x support, whilst RandomPlasma requires OpenCL and thus 10.6.x.

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mattgolsen's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I tested both applications on my Mac Pro Intel, with 10.6.5. RandomViz launches, shows up in the dock, nothing happens. Similar behavior with RandomPlasma, but the screen goes black.

I've noticed some oddities around including 3rd party plugins with work I've done, but assumed that it was just an out of date plugin, or something that I missed.

Not sure what's going on here, nothing logged in Console. If you rebuild them do they work?

offsite's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I'm going to have to rebuild some of the older items, but think that this is a real problem. Will look into it later, currently on a networked PC :-(

dust's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

these both run fine for me full screen in 10.6.6

Mac OS-X 10.6.6 (Build-10J567)
X-Code-Version 3.2.6 (Pre-release)
X-Code-Version 4.0 (Build-4A251a)
Quartz Composer-Version 4.0 (103.1)-Framework Version 4.2 ({156.28})

offsite's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I am beginning to think that the key test would be to check this out within a non plugin environment. Perhaps that makes the difference all told. [Even if it shouldn't]

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Window focus and a few things (? can't remember entirely) broke in 10.6 (re: not 10.6.6, just 10.6 in general)... so stuff I used to do like have actual windows follow mouse, or have an app at desktop level with mouse events forwarding, totally got screwed (which, actually were techniques used in the majority of QB apps I made).

I can't even imagine how stupid things are going to get once apps never quit. (How much does Win 7 cost again...?)

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Well , in my case, QB apps , complete with resources required [audio, video & plugins] are failing on other Mac platforms running 10.6.6 [back here as cybero :-)]

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I shall be rebuilding a couple, placing them to an URL and seeing if that makes a difference, will have a chance to check them out this Thursday.

Does seem significant that some report success, whilst others report failure on 10.6.x. What it signifies, I'm not too sure. All I know is, some stuff works AOK ands it seems darned ironic that I can wrap this as a Java application and it works fine and dandy, but QB , not currently as reliable.

Upon examining the package contents of the application I can find all the resources needed in the right place.

Finally , the apps always work on my machine & it would seem, some others too.

Puzzling.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

you mean you get sitar sounds and audio reactive patterns? [dumb question maybe]

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Does this work? I just built it... 10.6.6. It runs ok for me.

PreviewAttachmentSize
Metaball_2.5D.app_.zip146.82 KB

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Using java to run a comp is just lumping a ton of extra frameworks into an app, just to run a composition; it works, but it doesn't enable new function, and is kind of janky... java cocoa bridge is deprecated. I just don't see the point of using java to make a comp run... this is coming from someone who came to QC from making java based image processing applets. It's not as if it enables anything novel.

If you want something like that, use the use Animated Composition Layer Xcode proj as a starting point - it's way more straightforward, less dependencies, and actually does stuff like receive mouse events.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I hear you, don't especially disagree with you about this, in fact , I think it merely adds to the depth of irony involved inherently in a situation whereby Java wrapped compositions become even slightly more reliable than a QB wrapped and protocolised comp.

Odd isn't it?

I've checked for missing resources, bad file paths , estranged resources, all without fail. I've just built a new application, incorporating your new OpenCL morph and post it here. It proves, thus far, that a dynamic spectrum of constant member size can be used as the vertices feed to your Morph construct.

I've as yet to get into using the JS bank that lies within your Morph comp.

PreviewAttachmentSize
AudioSpectrumMorphMegaMesh.zip1.9 MB

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

runs just fine - small window, does it run OK full screen, probably would :-) Mind you, this is not a good test of this app running in a non supportive OS X environment. Not sure this one requires any plugins too. Does work though. Interesting read up on the process involved.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I think that works... was it supposed to make a fullscreen app with a kind of fluttering black quad->quad strip ?

The java project doesn't work (I built it, there were dozens of errors, and the comp didn't render...the errors were fixable, but then I thought "why", and back to the xcode project I referenced above). QB is working for me.

The javascript was just a tester. It makes two structures that have 4 points each.

I'm not sure what dynamic mesh means.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

dynamic mesh :- a term I use to describe the dynamic positioning resulting from say an audio spectrum member set.

Yes it is supposed to make a full screen application with a fluttering strip that renders as a result of the audio spectrum data being fed into the Mesh creating macro.

idlefon's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

It works properly on my system (10.6.5).

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Are you speaking of all, the metaballs only or another app ? BTW, the Audio Spectrum Morph is meant to play a sitar phrase / melody.

idlefon's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Sorry, I meant both. It seems that the Audio Spectrum Morph does not contain any audio (it's only 1.9 mb) but the comp reacted with soundflower.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

It's not playing any audio. Maybe you should post the comp or check file paths? I know not every sound player I've used actually supports file paths correctly. It looks like you're probably using movie player in asynch though? (or maybe the stock audio patch?) It bears scrutiny beyond quartz builder. If you're using movie player, it's a known limitation that QB doesn't work with the stock movie player.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

actually, it is meant to contain audio, in fact it is meant to play on a loop and still be audio reactive.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

It's actually the Kineme Audio Tools File Player and Audio Input that aren't quite doing what they ought to do.

I've attached the composition with the file that should be playing in it.

I've just attached the app [ for those without QB ].

PreviewAttachmentSize
AudioSpectrumMorph.zip1.36 MB
AudioSpectrumMorphMegaMesh.zip2.42 MB

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Ok, I totally lopped out toneburst's macros...

It looks like they're supposed to be doing some kind of device id formatting? However, if you disconnect them, and just let audio tools work, your composition will work fine.

By default, audio tools will play using the system device. You don't really have to "do anything", and it's probably better to just leave that field blank so that it always loads default (unless you have some kind of custom app that always talks to specific hardware on a specific install). If you wanted to, you could use audio device info, and then structure patches to send the correct data to the inputs of audio tools. I've used that a million and one times and it never fails.

It really looks like quartz builder is working ok, as is audio tools, at least over here. Checkout this build... it seems ok, once the toneburst macro is deleted.

What is the purpose of it in the context of this app, without exposing the control for it (pleasssse don't take that as critical, I'm just being inquisitive/trying to solve the problem). Maybe if you expose parameter control, if it gets sent a valid id, it may start working. Maybe since the 0's are published, and they aren't exposed, stuff isn't working quite right? I should abstain from making hypotheses and just test.

PreviewAttachmentSize
AudioSpectrumMorphMegaMesh.app_.zip2.32 MB

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Interesting point about the redundant published ports and [arguably] pointless macro. Your build works here too. Thanks for checking. Will also check on the platform giving a problem later this week. Shall be retrofitting the errant builds accordingly.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Welll, I was just trying to get at what is really the problem... and I realized I was making a classic mistake just a moment ago; I never took the composition and built it untouched.

On my system, when I build it (as is), it opens and plays music/renders fine (I didn't go into special settings to configure any of that stuff).

I'm not sure what to suggest at this point. I guess I would start thinking about if I had any plugin doubles, non-standard system settings, etc.

PreviewAttachmentSize
AudioSpectrumMorphMegaMesh_test.app_.zip2.32 MB

photonal's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Is there a way to start up Quartz Composer in a kind of 'single user' mode whereby it starts up and ignores any extra installed QC pulugins/patches?

photonal's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Quote: "RandomViz launches, shows up in the dock, nothing happens. Similar behavior with RandomPlasma, but the screen goes black."

Same behaviour too for me (Intel 10.6.6)

Also, AudioSpectrumMorphMegaMesh_test crashes.

Actually for that matter, neither does the standalone qtz comp: AudioSpectrumMorph, the structure turns red and issues the following errors:

09:55:10.498 ["JavaScript" @ "Kineme GL Polygon Mode"] > TypeError: Result of expression 'Positions[i]' [null] is not an object.

09:55:10.499 ["JavaScript" @ "Kineme GL Polygon Mode"] > Execution failed at time 9.831

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Thanks for taking the time to check, especially given your underwhelming results.

Would the JS error result from my running the latest WebKit [& your running an earlier version] must admit, not sure if the JS engine works a little differently as a result.

That JS error is the error break in either the texture or vertices and colours structure maker scripts.

I don't find that the test application fails, nor do I get the error reported, but the fact you do might indicate that an otherwise perfectly good QB construct could fail on some current OS X based builds.

Having checked all my current group of QB applications, I would say that all local file path issues ,affected only one of five applications, redundant published ports / options deleted , affected all but one, [sheepish grin], and protocolising, required by one application, I am going to publish these as a set of ongoing test cases.

They where meant to be an exploration of how a single sitar melody / song could be looped and 'reified' graphically. For the time being though, they can also help to check out why this disparity exists.

I've posted some re builds to my blog

usefuldesign.au's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Aside from having another OS X user with no plugins in ~/Library/Graphics/… and none at all in the shared folder at /Library/Graphics/… , I don't think so.

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I've just had the benefit of the examples posted on my blog being tested within a non plugin environment, on 10.6.6 and all examples worked exactly as expected.

Good news.

Although I am kind of expecting to hear that others are experiencing problems with some of my Quartz Builder Toys

PreviewAttachmentSize
SpectrumMeshMorph.png
SpectrumMeshMorph.png133.91 KB

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

1: Make sure all of your plugins are in your User folder.

2: Login as a different user.

offsite's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

Thanks to everyone that has been checking this. I have subsequently found that all of the machines locally that have failed to render the QB toys correctly were heavily managed and had rather dirty installations by means of a process of migration :-)

In short, when I went to another network of Macs, running 10.6.6, all of the toys worked as exzpected, quite re-assuring.

Not sure if that explains the problems others have reported.

Is there actually anything to investigate regarding Quartz Builder's facilities, I now wonder?

cybero's picture
Re: Quartz Builder applications not fully operational [post ...

I've had the opportunity to check the comps and apps out on another machine and find that again, they work wonderfully well.

The platforms that the example toys failed upon seemed to have been over managed & / or scrappy installations.

I believe that doesn't explain all the results reported above though .