Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do you think?

mirek's picture

Hi all,

What do you guys think about repository for plugins including:

  • smart plugin repository with automatically generated online documentation for all patches in the plugin
  • cocoa submission tool app, just right click on *.plugin and click publish
  • restful api with ruby/php/python/objective-c bindings to query/update repository
  • kineme core like app for managing plugin installation/auto-downloading missing plugins
  • lots of other good stuff coming from that like option for exception notifications to be sent online and auto-assigned to the faulty plugin so authors can see and fix them
  • auto updates for plugins etc.
  • all free to use

I've put together prototype which results you can see at http://quartzcomposer.com

I need to get mac based hosting to finish this project, I've put short info page about raising funds http://quartzcomposer.com/mac-hosting

Having a mac hosting will make all those ideas live.

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toneburst's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

That all sounds really cool!

a|x

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Ok Mirek, I'm also really interested in setting up a dedicated Mac web service so why not drop me a line -[mail link on my homepage] you are UK / GB based yeah?

There's a growing number of XServe Mac Mini server based solutions out there. What about organising a UK based QC portal service.

Seems like there's quite a few of us around.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

I believe (err, hope I'm not off task here), that this idea has been thrown around as part of the Repository/K-Core, and wouldn't be hard to implement, it's more of a question of plugin authors keeping their plugins up to date, and if that's something people would be motivated to do.

I think it would be better just added into the current k-core synch than to implement in another app.

gnomalab's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

yeah, great idea!

psonice's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Yeah, I agree. We already have a repository here, covering much of the same stuff.

Then again, that's a very slick looking site, and I like the way it works. How about getting the two together? :)

smokris's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Yes --- actually, work on integrating functionality like this into KinemeCore/kineme.net is already underway.

dust's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

hey that all sounds great. i don't think you could have got a better domain name for an undertaking like this.

i hear the xserve mini is pretty choice now ? just wondering why there is a need for dedicated mac hosting. i guess it does seem silly in some regards to use a dedicated windows godaddy server or something when quartz is an apple technology.

i lost my mac mini server in my divorce and use a macbook now. i would say i could give you free mac hosting... which i can and will if you need to test or prototype something, mac host specific but i'm not sure why. you obviously have a mac and all macs are servers so i'm sure you could test your self ?

regardless i can make you a user if you need mac hosting for free. i wouldn't rely on the speed of my server seeing where im at in new england we don't even have 3g yet. but if you need to test some of your ideas and can't get your hands on a mac server i'm more than welcome to help. my server doesn't get much use these days, i'm beginning to wonder why i even maintain a mac host at this point.

but yeah all the ideas sound awesome. just having a convenient place to archive all qc related things is a good idea to me. i mean all i have to say is you got to do something with a domain like that.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

It's kind of funny to see a copyright on the page of a website that's using the name of something trademarked, with a bunch of Apple copyrighted images.

smokris's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

dust wrote:
i mean all i have to say is you got to do something with a domain like that.

@dust, the name "Quartz Composer" is a trademark of Apple Inc., and it's not appropriate (or legal) for an entity other than Apple to own and operate a website branded with that name, in the same field of work.

Though I'm glad about @mirek's enthusiasm, he seriously needs to find and use another branding for his website (else I fear he may have to face the wrath of Apple's legal department, not to mention the wrath of confused/misled QC users).

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

glad to hear it. [that you're thinking of incorporating such functionality into Kineme Core]

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

good point, one previously made by gtoledo about mirek's site.

the job of rebranding shouldn't entail much more than rewriting some terms by search and replace and that site could be rolled out anew, besides, nothing thus far contrary to using pertinent terms like Quartz Composer in meta tags [content / description, etc].

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Also, (sorry, this is one of those pet peeve things for me), plopping Pouliot's Yellowtail plugin on the site without proper cred is kinda... crappy. There are inconsistencies in the way credit/url's are listed, and maybe something like ...oh, I don't know .... judicious use of spellcheck, could have been employed on the website to great effect.

The GLSL, and a number of other qtz's (mouse trails, mouse ribbon, paint) aren't properly credited either.

The use of the actual Apple QC icon and Apple style Finder look for the Search is audacious, as is the general attempt to make it look "apple like" without any clear statements that it isn't on the front page.(Already touched on this below, sorry to beat a dead horse).

leegrosbauer's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

smokris wrote:
... confused/misled QC users ...

My sentiment, and regardless as to the domain name, would be that the site would most honestly represent itself if it was simply and clearly stated at the top of the home page that it was a repository of quartz compositions and quartz composer plugins, aggregated and curated by Mirik Rusin.

usefuldesign.au's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Kinda funny to see Mirek donating into his own pocket for his own project too, as if he's somehow just an enthusiastic supporter of himself. Then his home URL is password protected so why publish it exactly? This guy needs to get some rest and rethink a couple of issues like ethics and IP law.

dust's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

just bringing this to attention again. regardless of the branding issue or the legitimacy of the domain ? i wish i bought quartz composer dot com before mirek did... could have swore i tried that domain. i mean i thought apple owned that domain all ready.

dust's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

some companies pay people to make crappy fan/user web-sites on purpose. its some kind of marketing thing.

either way the information is redundant at quartz composer dot com. its basically an online patch descriptions web-site. adding additional info not found in the patch creator descriptions and examples files might be worth a read.

i would be interested in having descriptions and examples for the apple private patches.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

No you don't. It's an illegal activity, under the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act.

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

LOL - I really did LOL when I first saw that Act's name - I thought it was a media neologism or something.

Actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act is worth boning up on just to avoid any copyright related cyber squatting.

What surprises me is that the domain name vendors still don't track this at all well.

Seems like it something that needs a bit of a triangular check - similar to can I have that log on - but rules derived from listed and verified trademarks , etc as covered by the what a mouthful of a title Act - still tickles me ribs does that.

Seriously -

An industrial / commercial consortium needs to ensure that such copyright infringement is avoided by being checked against prior to the vending of any such domain name.

International legal problem too - domain names being vended internationally , albeit that the DNS is effectively set up as a decentralised system in the US along with many of the registrars.

Serious problem though and one it's not too difficult to fall into when to all intents and appearances a domain name is available - key question here is the legal [said here without prejudice] matter of bad faith.

In short did the purchaser intend to mis-use that name for their own profit

Quote:

In determining whether the domain name registrant has a bad faith intent to profit a court may consider many factors including nine that are outlined in the statute:

the registrant’s trademark or other intellectual property rights in the domain name; whether the domain name contains the registrant’s legal or common name;

the registrant’s prior use of the domain name in connection with the bona fide offering of goods or services;

the registrant’s bona fide noncommercial or fair use of the mark in a site accessible by the domain name;

the registrant’s intent to divert customers from the mark owner’s online location that could harm the goodwill represented by the mark, for commercial gain or with the intent to tarnish or disparage the mark;

the registrant’s offer to transfer, sell, or otherwise assign the domain name to the mark owner or a third party for financial gain, without having used the mark in a legitimate site; the registrant’s providing misleading false contact information when applying for registration of the domain name;

the registrant’s registration or acquisition of multiple domain names that are identical or confusingly similar to marks of others;

and the extent to which the mark in the domain is distinctive or famous

from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

By way of reply and reference to Mirek himself, I do hope that all this constructive criticism and advice doesn't stifle anyone's enthusiasms for coding and Quartz Composer.

Still better to avoid a precipitous fall [Mirek], even if you're yanked back from the cliff's edge, eh.

Let's get back to Joy - I remember when that was a part of many a Mac code listing. [Also seems to be an implicit part of working in QC [with those fine 3rd party plugins, patches and macros].

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

To put that in perspective, people have been successfully sued for damages, or have been forced to give up domains in much more tenuous scenarios. In this case, it's not only squatting on a domain, it's using Apple copyrighted art and copy (text). The site has a place to give money, and is dilutive of a registered mark.

Forgetting that, it definitely violates all the law of Lame, and is extremely lacking in ethics.

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

LOL - I find it hard to disagree with your opening paragraph •~

Succinct.

This is obviously something that many here consider as vital to be addressed.

Providing a link to another's site is usually a matter of site author's choice and sometimes needs permission from the linked to site even if it were driving them traffic.

Placing links to 3rd party code archives without those code archives author's permissions is a flagrant abuse. I hadn't fully realised what you'd meant by that in an earlier post, GT. Pretty widespread in this site in question's case. Embedding content without permission is a similar no, no. Sometimes one needs to just pull back one's horns so to speak.

Apple and other companies provide web press kits and directions for the code to be associated in one's markup - trackable when using say , the QuickTime logo or something similar.

Finally, if the owner of the trademark or name has given their permission, they can also withdraw that permission when the 3rd party given that permission fails to respect the terms of that permission - its like a breach of contract - category - you're doing what makes us look bad and we can pull the plug on you for that.

I'm not so sure if you're being fair about the lack of ethics in this case, although technically it could be profiled and presented as such; I think this is rather more a case of inexperience and naivety mixed with enthusiasm.

usefuldesign.au's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Quote:
I'm not so sure if you're being fair about the lack of ethics in this case, although technically it could be profiled and presented as such; I think this is rather more a case of inexperience and naivety mixed with enthusiasm.

He has a amazon book link in a prominent place on +every+ page and a donation page. I think it's naive to call him naive.

I do think it's a case of enthusiasm obscuring right conduct — but enthusiasm to place himself centre stage by an association with QC, Apple and other peoples plugins. This is no hobbiest blog it's more like a snow job the way he appropriates (in a hack manner) Apple's artwork and accreditation is woeful. The little line now at the bottom of the page saying this is not an Apple site is almost self-parody.

He may have all the talent in the world and be the next cwright for all things 3rd party QC but this is not a great start (nor useful). I'm with everything GT has said on this.

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

you know, the more I'm looking at this from other's perspectives and angles the worse it does seem, though as you say, more a case of enthusiasm obscuring right conduct.

vade's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Im late to this party.

Color me really fucking pissed off. Repackaging plugins, getting names, and copyright wrong, claiming copyright to something there he has no domain over, making it very unclear that plugins are hosted, created and managed by 3rd parties and not Quartz Composer.com. Not to mention the liberal treatment of user generated compositions and apparent downloading & re-publishing of others work without their consent.

Linking to the repackaged plugins and not the original site means users won't be bothered to get updates and bug fixes, or know who/what/where the original work comes from.

This needs to be re-thought and re-designed. Now.

I don't doubt the general enthusiasm of the creator, but this was not well considered. The more I think about this the more I get really pissed.

mirek's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Finally gets interesting.

@vade respect to your work. I'm more than happy to make changes you want, including links to your page which are already in db, will make them visible asap.

One of your plugins (v002 film effects v.1.0)... you're right i've put copyright notice from your rutt-etra plugin by mistake there. You're using Creative Commons, Attribution - Non Commercial - Share Alike 3.0 for all of your plugins, I had to copy copyright notice from Rutt-Etra by mistake. I'll fix it...

Just one technical issue - I do not support reading dmg files, they have to be zipped *.tar.gz for the system to recognise defined patches properly.

Also I'd like to make few things clear re copyrights:

First of all - copyrights are not unlimited in scope.

Copyright Act creates a fair balance between an author's exclusive rights and the public's interest in using copyrighted material.

1976 Copyright Act sections 107 - 121 define those limitations. One of them (section 107) is a doctrine of 'fair use' which makes statutory exception from infringement/unauthorized use of copyright material. Fair use is designed to ensure that the rights of authors are balanced with the interest of the public in the free flow of information.

The purpose of the doctrine is to ensure that courts avoid rigid application of the copyright statute when, on occasion, it would stifle the very creativity which that law is designed to foster.

Re: yellowtail and other plugins, I'll check it now. I know some of you don't care but as a side note I have to say I didn't plan putting this website version online. Probably some of you have noticed the website was down for more than a day recently. I had a problem with hdd on the server which died and I am unable to restore any data, lots of my personal work together with several years old svn repository are gone. I had a nightmare several days because of that. I've put whatever version I've had locally to keep the traffic. Some of the things were not ment to go public until finished.

re: 100 paid for my hosting project - what's wrong with that? it would be weird to expect people donate when I didn't. Anyway hosting problem is resolved now, the case is closed, no donation needed, server is on the way.

dust's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

only mirek knows the implicite intent of quartz composer dot com. the explicit message is just as diluted and vague as the cyber squatting law. now as far as the wiki reads it seems that if you intend on building a legit web-site that doesn't infringe upon legit trademark law then, mirek owning the domain isn't a problem if lets say he wants to sell musical quartz watches or something.

what ever evidential preponderance mirek can come to the table with clearly is un substantiated given the associative context of the content contained on the site which basically violate's the afore mentioned squatting law and probably more than a dozen trademark-registration and or copyright laws. as it appears there is no sort of licensing agreement.

maybe it could all turn out good for mirek, maybe he will get thousands of dollars from apple but i would bet that the associative context and masked (donation) / profiteering venture that is solely based upon the relevant and direct association of a trade marked product would clearly litigate a cease and disist letter.

either way you look at it. mirek lost all his leverage to that domain when he decided to post qc related material. never mind the publishing of copyrighted information.

does this clear anything up or is this quote just as redundant as quartz composer dot com.

Quote:

Welcome to Quartz Composer Created by .xX on 2008-07-13. Copyright (c) 2008 Apple, Inc. All rights reserved.

dust's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

it definitely violates all the law's of Lame

Quote:

it definitely violates all the law of Lame

cybero's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

& if Mirek had simply done something like AQCBlog.org, sought & obtained permission wheresoever appropriate & used approved logos [with approval], etc he could even , conceivably, be doing as much and more than he's doing today.

It seems to me in the long and short of it is that good manners cost nothing, regardless of any reading of the law and Creative Commons licences.

More often than not, Mirek, if one asks, one receives.

usefuldesign.au's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

mirek wrote:
Finally gets interesting.
If that's a gambit to demonstrate humility, it failed.

mirek wrote:
…I had a nightmare several days because of that. I've put whatever version I've had locally to keep the traffic. Some of the things were not ment to go public until finished.

So when forced to choose between losing (whatever) traffic and stepping all over the peoples toes whos code and engagement Mirek seeks to exploit, he chooses to step on toes and salvage traffic. Perhaps this points to Mirek's motives for his sites construction more than anything than has been said so far.

mirek wrote:
re: 100 paid for my hosting project - what's wrong with that? it would be weird to expect people donate when I didn't.
Nothing. What's weird is that you seem to have a third person relationship to somebody called Mirek. It's like a guy alone in a room having a conversation with himself and pretending there's this big party going down. Meanwhile all the invitees are elsewhere pissing themselves (or pissed off).

smokris's picture
Re: Plugin repository a'la ruby gems/perl cpan - what do ...

Qué será será.

Let's move on to more productive conversations.

Topic closed.