QC 4 editor madness

franz's picture

Hi all, Here's a bug i'm having for a long time now, so i thought i could just post this here to see if other users suffer from the same issue.

QC4 editor randomly smoothes the patches font, apparently depending on their position on the grid or on the zooming level. Here's a snapshot attached.

Is anybody experiencing the same nightmare ? Or is this stuff only related to my computer (latest MBP) ?

thanks

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monobrau's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

Yeah, QC4 is quite a pain. I'm experiencing big slowdowns when editing large compositions, and the out-of focus thing also now and then. I'm on a alu MBP. Yesterday I had this massive noodle appearance.

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cwright's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

are you using kinemecore? if so, that might be a culprit. I've noticed this problem as well, but it might not be KCore related (I've not really had time to check -- the numerous QC4 quirks have made me stick to 10.5 for the time being.)

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

That "gaussian blur text" as I like to think of it, seems related to the "feedback" editor surface. For example change your bckgrnd editor color so that there's some alpha (without using K-core). Now start two finger scrolling, and watch everything take a crap. I can see the same kind of "blurring" going on with the editor glitch out stuff (though, maybe it's just coincidental?) Making the background with no alpha rectifies the psychedelic feel, but doesn't help the lettering.

It's been doing this in every build. It basically happens after a scroll or zoom. I can't remember exactly what you do to get it to re-focus, but there is some order of things that can be done to get the text to look sharp again (though it's totally unrealistic to do that while working).

And yeah, it IS a nightmare, especially when factored in with the light on dark color scheme. That's a major part of why I was ranting on and on about about the new editor. My eyes feel like they're bleeding after a day of editing in SL.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I'm going to be ultra- presumptuous and answer for him on this one, since I've been all over this issue already... it isn't caused by kinemecore, it's just the way that SL works.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

People have posted some (maybe you, Monobrau), about the editor slowdowns... I definitely see that, especially in compositions that have a bunch of stuff going on in a given macro.

This is kind of unrelated, but I'm absolutely certain that Spaces is slower for me in SL as well. I haven't timed it or done the true scientific test. At first I was just basing it on mild impression, but yesterday spent awhile going back and forth to reconfirm my suspicions. It really lags for me in SL.

cwright's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

that ... is quite possibly the most awesome thing I've ever seen! :) (too bad it's completely wrong :( )

franz's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

i am using Kcore. will try to remove it. I can't believe it, QC4 is worse than QC3 .... editor-wise maybe 10.6.2 will fix this, although they don't mention it in the release notes.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

On a similar note, I can get noodles to "break" visually, where it looks like the noodle is cut and doesn't line up with itself. Whenever I've tried to screen grab it, it's corrected itself, so I'll just have to take a photo when it happens again.

That, and the blurry text definitely have nothing to do with Kinemecore. At least Kinemecore fixes the background glitch stuff. The blur text is able to be totally reproduced with a 100% stock install. That was probably the very first aberrant thing I noticed in SL, next to render patches remaining in the Viewer after you delete them.

That "big" noodle picture is really out there! Maybe was can take the QC4 "cartridge" out and blow on it, and see if that fixes it :) (it reminds me of weird nes graphics glitches).

monobrau's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I've tried to reproduce the problem, also without any plug's installed. Still the same result. Moving around complex patches with a lot of noodles attached will slow down QC4 first, and then resulting in a crash. I wonder if any of you could reproduce it. Try the attached qtz, and click and drag any of the big patches for 15/30 seconds or so. With me it glitches first, and then crashes.

(Some nice editor glitch pics attached as well.)

franz's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

confirmed. it IS crashing. Hopefully i haven't started any SL only QC project. I guess i'll stick a bit to 10.5 until, say, 10.6.6 comes around....

let's face it, QC4 is rotten

cwright's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I just want to enter the Konami Code and get 30 lives... er, 30 minutes of glitch free operation :)

monobrau's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I filed this as a bug (yay, my first bug report ever) it's under #7295806

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

Hey, I'm still disappointed that entering "JUSTIN BAILEY" doesn't give free Kineme licenses.

smokris's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

gtoledo3 wrote:
the blurry text definitely have nothing to do with Kinemecore.

Hmm, I'm not so sure. Today I noticed there may be a connection with the KinemeCore "Snap To Grid" feature (which is separate from QC4's built-in "Align Patches" setting).

When KinemeCore's "Snap To Grid" is enabled (after a restart), I get blurry text; when it's disabled (again, after a restart), I get clean text.

Anyone else?

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

My first observation of the blurry text problem was not using kinemecore, but when I was looking at the way QC4 performed. Two finger scroll= blur text, at least on my system. Also, changing magnification, or moving a single patch. I didn't use kinemecore in Snow Leopard for quite awhile.

I use it now in SL, but not in Snap To Grid mode. I think it bears taking kinemecore out (which I'm definitely going to do), to see how the Editor is performing stock. I'm sure that what you're saying is right on. I'll try it in just a little bit.

franz's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

confirmed: blurriness disappears if i trash KnMCore. Just as simple as that .... QC editor seems faster as well ...

I'm now simply removing ALL the plugins i don't use on a daily basis.

Thanks smokris for noticing this

cwright's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

as a post-mortem (it's fixed in 0.5) -- snap to grid would sometimes generate fractional position coordinates (non-integers). QC-Leopard was generally smart enough to round off that fractional part (which would sometimes cause a patch to jump around once), but QC-SL actually kept them at a fractional position. This made all the text/line drawing happen across 2 or 4 pixels (instead of being pixel aligned), making it really blurry.

KinemeCore 0.5 (unreleased at present) revises the snap to grid algorithm to never produce fractional patch positions.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I am definitely getting the same results. This is interesting; I'm certain at one point the blur text could happen alongside the feedback editor. That's not the case anymore.

offonoll's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I remember while ago, when I used to design web pages, It got fameous pixelfonts in flash and they have to be located to an exactly rounded position due to an antialiase problem. So matching with the digital pixel with the pixel from the lcd. I don't know if this is the same problem but it looked to me when I saw the first time. I just wanted to mention this thought.

Looking fordward for KinemeCore 0.5 :)

monobrau's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I just installed leopard again. Downgrade is the best upgrade! Massive speed improvements, better interface and fine working plugin's... Nice!

franz's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

you're soooooooo right monobrau !!!

Even tho' disabling shadows and removing snap to grid does produce a speed bump in QC4 ....

QC3 is wayyyy faster.

NOTE: it seems that i can't install Leopard on my latest MBP (that shipped with SL) Or can I ?

cybero's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

You should be able to partition your HDD into two partitions, upon one you should be able to install Leopard. You will get the Your too advanced kind of message if trying to downgrade an installation. That's why you need to partition.

Caution - do backup your data as on the fly partitioning as Disk Utility allows can result in the loss of data according to the Apple Support / Discussion pages reports.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

With one computer available, my order of events would be to use Disk Utility to make a bootable copy of what's on the laptop on an external drive (firewire is highly preferable, as the next step would be painful on usb).

Once that is done, I would restart the computer while holding the option key, and select the external drive as the one I wanted to boot from. While booted from the external drive, I would open up Disk Utility and partition the drive on the laptop however I wanted it to be setup. Once the drive was partitioned, I would restore the external back onto one of the internal partitions, and from that point on, work off of the internal.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

What does "disabling shadows" mean? Do you just mean "not using" shadows? Are you talking about the lighting patch or something else?

offonoll's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

I guess he is talking about : prefs/editor/draw shadows :)

gtoledo3's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

Ah, ok, I've never messed with that.

I've been pretty cautious with plugins/patches and non-standard settings in SL. I guess I'll have to try disabling shadows on the editor, especially since it makes no difference to me.

Besides QC stuff, one thing that always stands out to me, is that for some reason, Spaces seems slower in SL. I don't know if that's a performance issue, or if the app just has a different timing curve now, or what. I mean, it's a subtle difference, but in Leopard, Spaces just flies for me, but in SL, it is kind of laggy. I wish I could contrive a scientific way of testing the speed difference. If anyone can think of one, let me know.

franz's picture
Re: QC 4 editor madness

right, i meant prefs/editor/draw shadows. Disabling these does induce speed boost, esp. on extremely large patches