Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

usefuldesign.au's picture

"Kineme Core v0.5 Release Notes" wrote:
Compositions in The Cloud -- You can now automatically download the compositions uploaded to kineme.net through KinemeCore, and you can embed them in your compositions as virtual macros.

I ticked one of the groups (Plugin) in the preference tab for Repository and the Pref tab proceeded to show a download of 12 or so comps.

a) Can't find where they installed to (if they did?!). b) I can only see 5 comps in the Plugin category in comp repository so why so many in the download?

Thanks for v0.5 KCore is one of my fav QC add ons. Looking forward to 2 editor windows and line noodles!

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cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

~/Library/Application Support/KinemeCore/Repository/

Which category did you tick, specifically? perhaps some of the compositions there are problematic?

cybero's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Wow - with Unsafe Mode set to all off I found I had to enable all for the plugins to work within QC editor itself :-) LOL.

Wonderful stuff. 2 Editor windows, sweet and the Compositions in The Cloud is just brilliant.

I think I'm going to have to look careful as I can see myself enabling Unsafe Mode and forgetting to check comps without Unsafe Mode ~

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

cybero wrote:
Wow - with Unsafe Mode set to all off I found I had to enable all for the plugins to work within QC editor itself :-) LOL.

I'm not experiencing this -- are you on 10.5 or 10.6? any specific steps to reproduce this? (it didn't crop up in alpha testing, and QC doesn't even utilize safe mode, except to put the unsafe badge on unsafe patches if you have "Indicate unsafe patches" enabled in the Editor menu)

cybero's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

This is on a 10.6.2 installation .

Can't reproduce it here - did happen, but doesn't seem to matter anymore :-).

I did restart QC after installing Kineme Core and also after altering Unsafe Mode settings.

It was the first run after installation when plugin dependent items just ran blank that prompted me to then try setting QC to Enable All setting in Kineme Core preferences.

As I write QC is now running Enable None and yet the same comps that previously ran blank now run as expected.

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

weird -- anything in Console?

cybero's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Attached is the crash log that was generated after the 0.5 installation & allowing Unsafe Mode in QC.

Didn't log the Graph Foundation Log entries generated, or even if there were any at the time of this closely associated crash.

The odd instance of none functional plugin dependent comps was a one off, it didn't directly precipitate the crash log above, once the QC app was set to allow Unsafe Mode, the problem disappeared and after that Enabled Unsafe or not, QC now renders plugin dependent compositions as per normal.

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QCConsoleCrash-02-01-10.txt37.94 KB

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

this crash looks completely Javascript (and completely not kinemecore) related... :/

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Are you saying that your qtz would run fine in the viewer, but you wouldn't see the patches? Were there noodles?

If the crash happened at a time that wasn't right when you were doing something with k-core, it's probably coincidental (?).

Hmm, can't reproduce that one.

cybero's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Actually, the qtz wouldn't run in the viewer, though the patches were showing in the Editor. Wasn't like the plugins weren't being loaded for the Library :-) .

I then enabled for QC, which I gather I don't need to do in any case, this seemed to resolve the problem upon restarting QC, in all probability simply restarting QC did all the hard work, for enabled for QC or not, without any safe mode QC now renders faithfully , the compositions that have plugin dependent patches.

Apparently all JavaScript related. There is a fair old amount of JS going on with the structuring and some of it might need some tidying up .

itsthejayj's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Hmm a brilliant new year gift cheers Kineme, shall play with now! Love the multiple editor window idea and safe mode patches;Thanks a bunch

639me's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

the core is growing! great new features! but i can't get the QTZInfo to work. i tried entering notes, custom patch names, published input/output names, restarting etc. also tried exchanging the new with the old 1.0 .mdimporter, but i still don't get any hits in spotlight. what am i doing wrong? i'm on 10.6.2

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Spotlight is of course non-deterministic, so it won't always show things (even if they match).

You can see if it's working by selecting a composition in Finder, and doing Get Info (cmd-I) -- if QTZInfo is working, you should see stuff in More Info (keywords, etc).

That said, now that you mention it, I'm noticing some similar things now (as in, it doesn't seem to be indexing new material? not sure what changed to make that not so -- I'll look into it).

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Yeah, it does look like comments broke sometime :-/

639me's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

just to check, and since i also got some of toledo's fine compositions around, i spotlighted 'george toledo'. it made a huge qc hang, and i've been struggling with it since.. sorry george, you're getting messed into this.. the strangest thing i found so far is a line from console.app:

03.01.10 02:39:43 Quartz Composer[344] Error reading from /Users/georgetoledo/Downloads/LEGOPLAY-1/LEGOPLAY.MD2

is it looking there?? =o

i took a stack trace if it could be of any help

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stack1.rtf60.5 KB

639me's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

the console also says

03.01.10 02:40:26 Quartz Composer[344] KinemeCore: Quartz Composer Editor crash detected: signal 15

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

the composition likely references a path there -- since it can't find it (it's telling you it can't in console) it's not spending any additional time on it. the trace provided is spending most of its time rendering quadrics (sphere, cone, cylinder in QC), not in kineme3d (probably because the k3d mesh couldn't be located, so it's not doing anything).

For future performance issues, a shark profile or, even better, the offending composition is more useful; a stack trace, not so much.

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

signal 15 is SIGTERM (Terminate) -- that's when you try to quit an unresponsive application (force quit is SIGKILL, or 9 -- kinemecore can't record that, since SIGKILL instantly destroys the application)

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

I know which composition that one is... huh, weird that I would have posted it without making the path relative. I don't actually remember posting it, as a matter of fact! It slipped by me.

There are fake lego blocks in that one, and it's all in a culled sphere, so the trace makes sense. That composition could probably heavily flake out depending on the version of texture tools being used.

639me's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

sorry to bring all this up here, but my problem is that qc is all unresponsive now. after trying out the spotlight thing a couple of times (while qc still ran fine), qc opened, but with all patches piled on top of each other within the editor. after that, it's been totally unresponsive. i've removed a lot of .plugins, including kinemecore and the spotlight .mdimporter.

any ideas?

@george: your lego comp has been running perfectly before. (10.5 though..)

edit1: now browsing in finder to the legoupload.qtz makes finder hang.. quickview related, only in column view.

edit2: now i've removed the rest of the .plugins, both from /patches and /plug-ins, and await repairing permissions. i'll check back

3: solved for now. i'll check the plugins later. thanks anyway

volkerk's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

fabulous new features. great time safer the 2nd editor and transmutate. thanks kinene

dust's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

woot woot.

love my kcore. its like i can not believe apple would not make some sort of publish all feature ? man during the SL crossover over few months back i had to disable kcore and man publishing to is a chore sometimes.

i will experiment i like the safe mode and repository features as well. this is actually a really slick application kcore is doing some real progressive stuff. its actually really cool to see things like this when normal app is just calling home to verify authentications and what not. its great to see what can be done in an entirely different context ...

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Texture tools on 10.5 has a known memory leak (particularly aggressive), so it's likely that anything using it (while animating textures) was using up lots of memory -- that'd thrash performance.

opening more than maybe 4 (non-trivial) compositions with viewers will bring QC to its knees since it does all editor drawing, all viewer rendering, and all UI handling on the same single thread. closing the compositions would likely improve performance (but it'd take a while to close them) -- nuking the QC plist will also not re-open previously opened compositions. This problem is entirely unrelated to plugins (though plugins can exasperate it by causing more rendering stuff to happen, etc etc).

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Remember that in one version of texture tools, weird exceptions get thrown once in a blue moon, because of some tiger era code; I believe it's a different issue than the memory leak.(?)

Also, the comment about opening a qtz and seeing all the patches laying on top of one another, makes it sound like the composition in question is something I ran through the old "composition tool.app", that would flatten out qtz, and lay everything on top of one another. The weird thing is, that it doesn't actually seem to lay everything on top anymore when I use it (just tested).... I guess that somehow got broken with OS updates. That's too bad, because those qtz's were always snappier with virtually no noodle drawing going on.

leegrosbauer's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

I seem to have had an issue arise. Getting constant QC crashes at present. Crash log attached. Advice?

For clarification; existing compositions aren't crashing, but new ones are. I crash every time simply by putting a Video Input patch or Img patch together with a Billboard or Sprite in a new editor window. Same crash report comes up each time.

Edit: actually, it turns out that if I add a Video Input or Img patch at root to any composition, existing or new ... I get a crash shortly after clicking on that Video Input or Img patch a time or two. Again, same crash report.

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Crash Log.rtf42.66 KB

cybero's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

can't reproduce this, can add a video input at root and iterate that input with JavaScript.

leegrosbauer's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

I didn't try it with anything other than a Billboard or Sprite, and then seperately at root in an existing composition. I'll just have to wait and see what Chris and Steve make of it.

Also, I see my KinemeCore Crash Reporter was not enabled by default. I've now enabled it in KinemeCore Preferences and sent on the whole batch of crashes referenced above. Hope that helps.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

What happens if you run QC in SL, in 64-bit mode instead of 32 (it looks like you're running 32-bit)?

leegrosbauer's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

That was it! No crashes in 64-bit mode! I had switched to 32-bit mode to use a CoGe plugin. Still need to know what it all means, however.

For one .. I discovered that (for me anyway) CamTwist is available as a video input source in 32-bit mode but not in 64-bit mode, although it didn't matter whether or not I tried to use it ... QC crashed anyway. And I DO want to regain access to that capability. I used to use it almost daily to observe a myriad of CamTwist hosted QC effects chains as they might appear if added to any given composition. Losing that one pissed me off almost as much as not gaining OpenCL. If I can get it back I'd be really happy.

Regardless, I guess there's no point in speculating about this 32/64 bit inconsistency. We'll still need to await official word from Kineme, I think.

Thanks George! Good catch!

cwright's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Thanks for noting this Lee (and other users who emailed us) -- I've reproduced this issue (run QC in 32bit mode, disabled linear noodles, and create or edit a noodle), and am currently working on a fix. expect KC 0.5.1 sometime this week to address this (and a couple other minor issues)

fsk's picture
plugin installation failed

when i clicked on the plugin file it said the installation succeeded but only the old one was renamed.

the console says:

1/4/10 2:52:53 PM KinemeCore Plugin Installation Assistant[4077] error installing /Volumes/v002 Rutt Etra 2.0.1/v002RuttEtra.plugin to /Users/user/Library/Graphics/Quartz Composer Plug-Ins/v002RuttEtra.plugin: Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=512 UserInfo=0x8000433a0 "“v002RuttEtra.plugin” could not be moved to “Quartz Composer Plug-Ins”."

im on 10.5

cwright's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

Yep, we just noticed this a couple hours ago -- Cocoa's move isn't the same as UNIX's move -- on unix, move from a read-only medium does a copy, on Cocoa it outright fails. KinemeCore 0.5.1 will address this issue.

leegrosbauer's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

My thanks to you, Chris. This version of KinemeCore has a wealth of extremely useful features. I've predicted in postings elsewhere that it's surely destined to soon become an indispensable tool suite for most QC users. I'm just delighted with it.

cwright's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

This issue should be fixed -- please download KinemeCore 0.5.1 and see if it resolves the issue for you.

vade's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

Sorry my disk image packaging is causing a pain in the ass :)

Is there a chance to eventually have a preference in Kineme Core to disable the automatic saving of compositions on a crash, and crash reporting?

Sometimes I kill things manually when profiling in GL Profiler or other apps, and have a lock up, and then Kineme Core does its voodoo saving and I end up with 10000 qtz on my desktop :)

fsk's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

works like a charm:)

cybero's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

just noticed your animated gif, fsk. nice toroid type knot.

cwright's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

hey vade, not your fault (We expected cocoa to do the right thing, and it doesn't -- our fault for not testing that case) :)

I'm been thinking about the checkbox for autosaving... I'm kinda on the fence. It could definitely be improved (i.e. you could define a folder instead of always being the desktop, it could only save unsaved documents, etc.), but disabling worries me (because it'd default to disabled, and people would lose stuff -- sounds silly, but it happens)

we can chat about this; I'm definitely open to improving it (even adding a disable check box, provided sane defaults), so please let me know what you think.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

Hahahahha.... fsk's icon is exactly why I wanted gif export out of QC, CW :-P

fsk's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

thanx. made that ages ago with 3Dmax. the only thing that kinda bothers me about it is that it just doesnt work as a static image (as a logo or something).

vade's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

If its possible to have autosave / crash detection enabled by default, and a very very very very verbose angry warning saying, IF YOU DISABLE THIS YOU UNDERSTAND THE RESPONSIBILITY, etc. I don't mind the location it saves to, or the saving a new version of an already saved composition (that makes sense, its important enough you saved it, so it should be saved if there are changes or a crash).

Its honestly not a huge issue. If I do a lot of debugging and it annoys me I just remove kCore for an hour or two to debug my plugin :)

cwright's picture
Re: plugin installation failed

I encounter the debugging-filling-the-desktop issue very regularly too, so I completely agree with it being useful :)

Perhaps it could be timed? (note: I'm way over-complicating this) so you could disable it for an hour or two. Or disabled completely (with the verbose verbiage and all that).

still thinking about how to do this... (thanks for the thoughts thus far :)

markus.helminen's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Hi! The new core patch is working great!(not counting some initial plugin vanishing difficulties) I really love the new look w/out the messy overcoocked noodels sticking to evryplace.

I wanted to ask about the new composition time controls. the pause, forward, backward, jump. It would be very nice to get some control over them via the composition itself. First I thought to set up it with some virtual keys and osc but is there a easier way to send keyboard commands out the composiotion.. or could there be a plugin that you can use to control the comp time.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

The step Viewer is a fav...it's been around for a version of two, so it wasn't listed as a new feature.

There isn't any way to access the step editor feature via the composition, but one thing you can do to control composition time, is to put everything in a macro (select all, then click the macro button on your editor), then control click on the created macro, to select external time, and then power that with a patch time, system time, interpolate, some kind of math, etc. That should work out the majority of the time.

You could take a counter attached to a macro's patch time, for example, and use that to scoot ahead in a composition, whole number (a second) at a time (or less, if you use some math).

markus.helminen's picture
Re: Kineme Core v0.5 New Features

Thanks for the advice Mr Toledo. Now I got it working. :)