Did the lion ate QC?

kimba23's picture

A few weeks back I upgraded to Lion, and quartz composer performance was abysmal... a lot of my comps did nor work properly and frame rate was pretty low on stuff that worked well on Snow Leopard with lots of crashes on different things, specially kinect related stuff . So I downgraded with a Time machine backup... So I am wondering about other peoples experiences? I read a while back somewhere in this forums that quartz composer seems to be fading out of development, is this true? Should i move on to max/msp (since they halved the price)? Does Quartz have a bright future or it's been eaten by the lion and other cats to come? That would be sad IMO.

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cybero's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

I don't think that QC is slated for eradication, OpenCL is updated on Lion and in QC, as is its framework. I've discovered a few gnarlies but have found that the environment and paradigm work very well. All of the QC work over the past six months, bar a couple of items requiring facilities better supported in Snow Leopard at present have been done in Lion.

I have one issue with the failure of QC's video input and Movie Importer patches not working as per Snow and prior incarnations, being a bit reluctant to either restart or sometimes even start in QC, although the Movie Importer function, bar the lack of audio supported Asynchronous play is well covered by Kineme Video Tools at present and the Video and Movie Importer patch problems I've reported upon here and elsewhere are seemingly down to my machine's build version and are not reported widely elsewhere.

The problem you have would seem to ve a result of upgrading rather than fresh imstalling and building directly from the ground up. It shouldn't be that difficiult and you maybe ought to have ensured that you'd fully updated depending upon the version of the distro install used. Just hazarding a guess.

I have also apprehended some GLSL texture input from video and movie and also some GLSL rendering failures in Quartz Crystal preview. All those things will no doubt prove addressable in due course. Generally more stable in some respects than Snow Leopard's QC.

Just my experience to date. Offline renders seem faster on Lion.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

Lion ate OS X. Maybe Apple eventually.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

More constructive:

Things in OS X are slow now. Window drawing is slower. Looking for things like "recent files" in any app is slower. Hell, simple things like Text Edit are slower. It seems like anything that touches AppKit, is slower. I think someone could call this "Apple's Vista", and be on point.

Additionally, Xcode is borked 4+. It has many bugs (in general) and a horrible/buggy interface.

Apple does not give a flying fudge about professionals. They don't give a flying fudge about Developers, aside from allowing people to make apps that fit in their "sandbox/auto file save" broken paradigm, like iFart Keyboard or whatever, and skimming money off of the top by selling it in their (cr)AppStore. They give many flying fudges about selling you iTrinkets.

The main "problem" with QC right now, is the Editor. It seems like maybe there was an attempt to "make it better" that has gone awry with some legitimate bug. The timing between the Editor and the Viewer seems like maybe it was made so that "shaking" the Editor doesn't screw up the Viewer as much (or at all?), but in turn, now stuff is so laggy when live editing, that you really CAN'T live edit.

That said, I've found that certain things work better. Doing feedback loops using RII and GLSL shaders actually works correctly for many things in Lion, that never has before. For instance, one can run a game of Asteroids or Pong using just a shader and the feedback buffer now, whereas in SL and Leopard, this does not work. Certain things now also "just work" in GLSL that didn't before.

I regularly flip between SL and Lion installs, and occasionally back to Leopard... I have all three on this machine.

Also, the laggy Lion QC Editor has many less leaks than in SL and Leopard.

It has been (and will always be?) that running your qtz in the context of an app that "isn't" the QC Editor is the best choice.

It just so happens to be that with the "laggy" Editor, from a seeming improvement (some kind of effort at multithreading(?), and maybe some autosave hijinx and AppKit shittiness coming together like a perfect storm), is screwy right now if you're trying to edit with a good deal of patches on the editor, and also running the Viewer. My experience has been that some of my apps (NOT in the QC Editor) work fine or better, while some stuff that may make calls that are not supported anymore, may not work (the same as in all OS updates).

The kinect stuff isn't so much a "blame QC" thing. The patch needs to be examined, and maybe the drivers or other frameworks being used.

When SL came out, it was a total fudge-fest too, but there are some changes across the board that feel more fundamental. I think it's probably worth filing bugs on the Editor lagginess though, if you have the will to deal with the Bug Reporter and whatever responses you're going to get.

gtoledo3's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

This is one of those qtz's I'm talking about that actually works now in Lion (at least on 3 machines so far), but hasn't previously in Leopard/SL ...didn't do Tiger testing! (taken from some code @ glsl sandbox).

PreviewAttachmentSize
brickbreaker fragment shader.qtz16.16 KB

cybero's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

Does it offline render AOK in Quartz Crystal for you GT?

Having taken another look it probably would be best to screen capture this :-)

Prior question prompted by the way that some of the GLSL I've been working upon renders well enough in Composer but fails to offline render in Crystal - composition specific, not as though all GLSL fails.

Actually even with recorded input in Crystal couldn't get to start the game running though the grid of bricks showed up nicely enough.

jersmi's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

Hi George. I'd be surprised if you were not thorough in your install, but could verify if these problems are machine specific (I'm on a MBP/nvidia 9400/9600), that you started with a clean install, etc., on Lion? I'm experiencing all the same stuff you report but haven't tried a clean install yet (g knows why i didn't in the first place). i have my fingers crossed i'll get kineme core to work again, as it has not for me on Lion.

cybero's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

I think you might be on to something regarding the clean install. That was my approach from the outset of using Lion.

jersmi's picture
Re: Did the lion ate QC?

Thanks, cybero.